Post your questions here

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Davo87
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by Davo87 »

A while back a fought an Aph B player who purely chipped me to death with Fad Bombs, RW and LTCW and rarely used CC as silly as it sounds. I tried to captalize on zoning and take my hits as he approaches but he just dodges everything with dash wataru. As a specineff player what to do once he gets in range? The problem is once he is range for airdash bomb I become afraid to commit to anything as I cant punish if he does low altitude dash with has amazing recovery. Anybody faced an Aph B of similar description?

I also didnt know Specineff's CW can be cancelled with Aph B's LTCW which is applicable at the start of the round.
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neoKEN
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by neoKEN »

For bal-bados, how do you do his CW seeking laser that uses only 1 ERL leg? Usually I can do 1 ERL arm or 1 ERL arm & 1 leg, but never 1 leg by itself.
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MentholMoose
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by MentholMoose »

neoKEN wrote:For bal-bados, how do you do his CW seeking laser that uses only 1 ERL leg? Usually I can do 1 ERL arm or 1 ERL arm & 1 leg, but never 1 leg by itself.
I think it's a half-cancelled CW to put out one arm ERL, then while that ERL is still out, do side air-dash half-cancelled CW (IIRC normally that will put out both the arm and leg ERL, but since the arm is already out, only the leg will go out).
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neoKEN
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by neoKEN »

okay, I found it.

It's called Quarter-Cancel. It doesn't need an ERL to be out.

Dash right then press CW(L) -> CW(R). Vice-versa for dashing left.
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DeepInTheHops
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by DeepInTheHops »

Davo87 wrote:A while back a fought an Aph B player who purely chipped me to death with Fad Bombs, RW and LTCW and rarely used CC as silly as it sounds. I tried to captalize on zoning and take my hits as he approaches but he just dodges everything with dash wataru. As a specineff player what to do once he gets in range? The problem is once he is range for airdash bomb I become afraid to commit to anything as I cant punish if he does low altitude dash with has amazing recovery. Anybody faced an Aph B of similar description?
No answers yet? Please don't tell me I'm the local Specineff expert... :?

I think the best thing you can do against AphBs like that is to play chicken: try to stay at mid-range and hide behind walls. Even without using CC, AphB needs to be fairly close to be effective. Walking cLW and cRW are your friends, since AphB is fairly quick and you'll need the extra speed boost they give you. Use CW from behind walls and RW during his freezes. If he tries to flush you out using LW, run behind the next closest wall ASAP. Sorry that's probably not much help. :| Maybe some AphB players can tell you what annoys them most about Specineff players. :)

Also, never "take your hits" with Specineff. It's tempting with AphB's RW because it seems so weak, but those hits add up fast if he connects with several of them in a row.
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neo helbeast
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by neo helbeast »

DeepInTheHops wrote:
Davo87 wrote:A while back a fought an Aph B player who purely chipped me to death with Fad Bombs, RW and LTCW and rarely used CC as silly as it sounds. I tried to captalize on zoning and take my hits as he approaches but he just dodges everything with dash wataru. As a specineff player what to do once he gets in range? The problem is once he is range for airdash bomb I become afraid to commit to anything as I cant punish if he does low altitude dash with has amazing recovery. Anybody faced an Aph B of similar description?
No answers yet? Please don't tell me I'm the local Specineff expert... :?

I think the best thing you can do against AphBs like that is to play chicken: try to stay at mid-range and hide behind walls. Even without using CC, AphB needs to be fairly close to be effective. Walking cLW and cRW are your friends, since AphB is fairly quick and you'll need the extra speed boost they give you. Use CW from behind walls and RW during his freezes. If he tries to flush you out using LW, run behind the next closest wall ASAP. Sorry that's probably not much help. :| Maybe some AphB players can tell you what annoys them most about Specineff players. :)

Also, never "take your hits" with Specineff. It's tempting with AphB's RW because it seems so weak, but those hits add up fast if he connects with several of them in a row.
Also a turning LW (wall of purple flames) followed by a crouching RTLW.
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Davo87
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by Davo87 »

yah, it turns into a runaway sliding cRW fest and lots of standing curse. Just to stop him from dashing in directly. Tho once he gets midrange its easy for him to airdash and bomb attack from above. Thats when running away is necessary to avoid getting hit by bomb blast and its landing cLTCW tornado that sets him up for quickstep attack. Fighting in CC is just suicide. Specy's quickstep attack has some range and its really got subpar priority when comparing to middle weight VRs. (Somebody tell me Im wrong ^^;) AphB's diagonal fwd dash is just as great as his fwd dash which is effective for dashing out of Specy's close range diagonal cCW.

Curving sidedash is effective during his doublelock CW chargein but not if he locks into u while u dash. Specy's grounddash is short and its easy to wait too long and fall into the recovery window which prevents u dashcancel or extend with airdash. Sliding covers more ground and can be done in quick successions with less recovery in btn but it means total loss of visual contact.

becareful when using walls against good CC chars, it can catch u off guard if their CC/quickstep attack intercepts ur dash escape and pins u down as a result. In tight spots like airport, its easy to feel pressured to airdash escape which is a disadvantage for specy's slow airdash. :(

i also vary the timing if using CW at the start just cos intermediate AphB players would defend themselves with LTCW which is a short window for them.

against airbomb if they are directly in front of me, i could release boomerang and dash away. Just so it could detonate the bomb early and score a hit. Its a premeasure just so u get possible damage while dodging. Tho very few would airbomb ya recklessly from the front.

With the way i play specy, flow is very important from the start of the match to the end. When its disturbed and suddenly Im the one at disadvantage and having to chase at late game and empty LW gauges makes it worse. Im still at the stage of changing my habit of reducing escapes via airdash in certain matchups. (Well read empty airdash = free punish). Also I admire those who have a good backup plan even when under pressured by timer and low health. Lately my worse nightmare is Bal. Dash vector is still F***ed against Grysvok simply bcos his fwd dash 4-hit RW takes so long to finish, good tracking and such a small recovery. Tho yeh who am I to be complaining with. lol

I wish i could get some advice from those JP BBS.
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by Davo87 »

This issue probably has been raised.

At CC range, when u try to dash, it turns into quickstep which results to death bcos u dodge nothing. This happens a lot when u jumpcancel into dash or dashing just when someone is dashing pass you. It seems to be execution issue when the timing of dash and direction is not together even by a tiny difference in frames. Its especially annoying bcos u cant jump from quickstep alone. Any ideas to alleviate this problem? Does it happen to stick users?
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MentholMoose
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by MentholMoose »

Davo87 wrote:This issue probably has been raised.

At CC range, when u try to dash, it turns into quickstep which results to death bcos u dodge nothing. This happens a lot when u jumpcancel into dash or dashing just when someone is dashing pass you. It seems to be execution issue when the timing of dash and direction is not together even by a tiny difference in frames. Its especially annoying bcos u cant jump from quickstep alone. Any ideas to alleviate this problem? Does it happen to stick users?
One option is to input turbo again and do a quick-step into a dash. Or you can delay your turbo input long enough to not quick-step in the first place.
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Davo87
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by Davo87 »

Thx. Usually its too late when it happens. Best with prevention.
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neoKEN
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by neoKEN »

Davo87 wrote:This issue probably has been raised.

At CC range, when u try to dash, it turns into quickstep which results to death bcos u dodge nothing. This happens a lot when u jumpcancel into dash or dashing just when someone is dashing pass you. It seems to be execution issue when the timing of dash and direction is not together even by a tiny difference in frames. Its especially annoying bcos u cant jump from quickstep alone. Any ideas to alleviate this problem? Does it happen to stick users?
If you enter a direction before pressing dash, it should always give you a dash no matter where. Like MentholMoose said, you can enter a dash input if you accidentlly q-step.
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mcpon14
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by mcpon14 »

Hi! I'm new. I couldn't find this anywhere but what are the moves for stein-vok and apharmd c? Their LW, CW, RW, CrLW, CrCW, CrRW, RTLW, RTCW, RTRW, LTLW, LTCW, LTRW moves. It wasn't on gamefaqs.com.
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shamanic_beat
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by shamanic_beat »

For Commander

RW: Shotgun blast. Mid range. High ammo cost. Chips off V-armor. Forward dashing RW has a very good knock-down rate. Crouch version seems to have a higher chance of hitting.

RTRW: Think of this as the Carnage skill in Mass Effect. The only acceptable long range attack. Long freeze time. Can be canceled with a walking RW. Crouch version doesn't seem all that different.

LTRW: Chips V-Armor. Long freeze time. Not very useful. I've heard elsewhere that you can cancel other stuff with this move, but I have no idea how it works.
==================================================
LW: Napalm. Hide in it. Negates some enemy attacks. Doesn't seem any different with the crouch version.

LTLW: Small bouncing rubber ball bomb. Low ammo cost. Low damage. Small area of effect. Crouch version can be canceled.

RTLW: Soccer bombs. The crouch version seems to be slower than Battler's. Will probably enrage your opponent if you hit them several times in a row with this. Not a bad opening move. Requires a bit of luck to hit.
==================================================
CW: Sword wave. Homes. Good for negating enemy attacks. If you CW while you walk left, you can make it fly above most obstacles.

LWCW: Vertical version. Homes better.

RWCW: Throws your machete. High damage. Ignores V-armor. Works suprisingly well against slower enemies. Tieria/Graham calls it the boomerang.

CrCW: Also throws your machete. Faster than the RWCW version. Doesn't home. Less damage.

CrRTCW: The machete flies toward you opponent... and stays there, doing minuscule damage and slow your opponent down. It's basically Commander's version of the homing Dordray clamps. You can't use your CW at all after you do this. Don't get into CC either unless you want to wave around a non-existent sword.

CrLTCW: Not much different from the standing version other than that it homes better.



Conclusion: Commander is a very weak VR. Lackluster in close range. Impotent in long range. Barely alright in mid-range. There are only three real advantages to him:
i) Almost zero post-dash freeze time.
ii) Excels at knock downs.
iii) Your opponent is most likely not used to fighting Commander. This is pretty much the only thing that keeps me alive nowadays.
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Schooly D
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by Schooly D »

shamanic_beat wrote:RW: Shotgun blast. Mid range. High ammo cost. Chips off V-armor. Forward dashing RW has a very good knock-down rate. Crouch version seems to have a higher chance of hitting.
In my limited experience with Commander, I've found the forward dashing crouch version is almost universally a worse choice than the normal forward dashing version. The time duration of the shots (the "window" so-to-speak) is less, they do less damage, and they are much more affected by V. Armor (standing version seems to effectively ignore V. Armor at middle range or closer). I'm not sure but I think they also don't knock down as well.

Great list by the way. I learned some things. :mrgreen:
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shamanic_beat
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by shamanic_beat »

Oh that's just the weird sentence placement. I meant CrRW has a nice hit rate, not forward dashing CrRW. CrRW is pretty much the only way I can land a hit on your Cypher.

And please don't learn more about Commander, your Cypher is owning me hard enough as it is ._. Thank god I purposely left out some crucial weakness...
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mcpon14
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by mcpon14 »

Wow! That was incredibly thorough, shamanic_beat. Thank you. :)
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neoKEN
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by neoKEN »

shamanic_beat wrote:For Commander
LTRW: Chips V-Armor. Long freeze time. Not very useful. I've heard elsewhere that you can cancel other stuff with this move, but I have no idea how it works.
I use cLTRW -> walk cancel -> RW. I call it the "Rainbow Shot" since your stream of bullets appear multicolor.

The cLTRW will go through some of your opponent's shot while the RW follows to do damage.
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DeepInTheHops
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by DeepInTheHops »

mcpon14 wrote:Hi! I'm new. I couldn't find this anywhere but what are the moves for stein-vok and apharmd c? Their LW, CW, RW, CrLW, CrCW, CrRW, RTLW, RTCW, RTRW, LTLW, LTCW, LTRW moves. It wasn't on gamefaqs.com.
The best thing to do is just play around in Practice mode. But I'll list off what I know about Stein-Vok. Some of this might be wrong; hopefully somebody will correct me.

As you probably already know, Stein-Vok's weapons are just a mix of other VRs'. I'm not sure if they're exactly the same when it comes to damage, speed, V-Armor pentration, etc., but they're probably close if not.

RW: Mostly like Apharmd C (shotgun). RT variants are like Cypher's (laser), LW are like Grys-Vok's (machine gun)

CW is a weird mix of stuff:
CW: Cypher (energy ball shot, except Stein-Vok shoots two)
cCW: Bal (like Bal's RW rings)
Side dash CW: Raiden (but way worse)
Forward dash CW: Raiden (but way worse)
Sliding side dash CW: Bal (rings)
Sliding forward dash CW: Specineff (like Specineff's RTLW, but also stuns. This one bounces instead of floating around, and has poor homing, so cRTCW is better)
jCW: Cypher. Just like the standing version.
Side dash jCW: Cypher (4 skinny lasers)
Forward dash jCW: Cypher. Just like the standing version. Does more damage?
RTCW: Cypher? Basically like Cypher's RTRW, except it shoots 4 beams: two go forward, one left, one right
cRTCW: Specineff (like Specineff's RTLW, but also stuns)
jRTCW: Cypher? Just like the standing version.
LTCW: Cypher (4 skinny lasers)
cLTCW: Angelan (ice beam laser)
jLTCW: Cypher (4 skinny lasers)

I'm not sure which CW weapons can be half-cancelled. I've half-cancelled LTLW a few times by accident, but I can never nail the timing when I try. The other CW attacks either can't be half-cancelled or require better timing than I'm capable of. If anybody has additional info on this, that'd be great.


LW: Mostly acts like Raiden's LW does in the air (energy bomb), but unlike Raiden, Stein-Vok's LW is an energy bomb both in the air and on the ground. It cancels out enemy projectiles, but not as well as other VRs' (at least it seems that way to me).

LW: Throws a bomb, lands a short distance ahead and explodes
cLW: Similar to the standing version, but slides until it hits something, then explodes.
Side dash LW: Like the standing verison.
Forward dash LW: Like the standing verison.
Sliding side dash LW: Like the standing verison.
Sliding forward dash LW: Like the standing verison.
jLW: Like the standing version, except it gets launched all the way across the screen directly to the enemy.
Side dash jLW: Like jLW
Forward dash jLW: Like jLW
RTLW: Like the standing version, but goes further (and does more damage I assume)
cRTLW: Like cLW, but slides from the get-go (no toss) and slides much faster.
jRTLW: Like jLW; stronger, I assume.
LTLW: Grys-Vok's machine gun. Does no damage; just strips V-Armor
cLTLW: Like LTLW
jLTLW: Like LTLW

Notable LW variants are:
Back dash cLW: Slides towards opponent (side and forward dash cLW attacks do not slide)
Back dash jLW: Goes straight forward a few hundred meters, then stops. Explodes a few seconds later.
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by khl »

shamanic_beat wrote:For Commander
LTLW: Small bouncing rubber ball bomb. Low ammo cost. Low damage. Small area of effect. Crouch version can be canceled.
Crouch version shoots straight out and explodes like a bomb (like fwd dash LW) instead of napalm like the standing LTLW. Range isn't that long (less than 400m?). Takes off about a good chunk of varmor if it hits, and does nearly no damage.
More useful than the standing version IMO.
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shamanic_beat
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Re: Post your questions here

Post by shamanic_beat »

Crouch version is also good at knocking your opponent down and pissing them off =P
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