Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

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Jonnydark
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Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Jonnydark »

I don't own this fei yen figure yet. But this price is ridiculous. $490.51 Canadian!

Can anyone give me the details on this one? Who made it? How can I search it?

http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h175434385
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Porcupine
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Porcupine »

Wow the item box says that Katsuhisa Yamaguchi sculpted that figure. He is the same person who did the superb job on all the Kaiyodo VOOT figures. I had no idea he had ever done a VOOM Fei-Yen.

The item description says that it's a garage kit and it looks like the original price was in the neighborhood of 38 dollars. But I guess since it is so old and rare he is asking 500 for it. I wonder if it is unassembled, unpainted, and in white resin, like most garage kits are?

I'm trying to do some searches for that figure but so far haven't found it anywhere else. For my search reference: バーチャロン フェイイェン 海洋堂
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Porcupine
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Porcupine »

Great news, I found the item here and the going price for it is only 15 dollars.

http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/ja/it ... 49155.html

Bad news is that someone recently bought it, but if you keep checking places for it regularly, it should turn up again and the price should be reasonable.
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Jonnydark »

Awesome thank you so much Porcupine! It's nice to know it's not impossible to find.

And yeah, it looks like it would be an awesome item to own.
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Viper2 »

This is part of Kaiyodo's "Robot Museum" line up (don't bother searching for the Japanese version of "Robot Museum", they almost never show up under that name...). Their original price is much, much lower than 50,000 yen (completely insane price, that seller is smoking something). Highest I would go is 3,500 yen, and that's pushing it.

Unfortunately, Apharmd and Temjin are the most common figures in this series of resin kits (followed by Viper II). The others are really hard to find. So I say "resin kit"...it's a model kit made of resin that needs quite a bit of work to build.

Here is a page with the build of one (not mine):
http://tortoise39.blog.fc2.com/blog-category-37.html

(No, I don't own any of Kaiyodo's robot museum kits)
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Porcupine »

Oh, I had seen pictures of that but I did not realize they were of that particular figure. I guess it's a typical white resin garage kit after all. I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's a model kit made of resin? I've never purchased any VO model kits, but Gundam model kits and such are usually made of plastic and the parts are much more complicated and tiny, usually hollow, and often in runners and halves that you snap or glue together.

The parts of this kit look to be solid and in the usual number of pieces you find on a normal resin kit.
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Jonnydark »

Viper2 thank you SO MUCH for filling me in again. (I can't decide if that's an amazing paint job or a horrible paint job.)

I think I'll be able to track this one down now. :)
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Viper2 »

Porcupine wrote:Oh, I had seen pictures of that but I did not realize they were of that particular figure. I guess it's a typical white resin garage kit after all. I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's a model kit made of resin? I've never purchased any VO model kits, but Gundam model kits and such are usually made of plastic and the parts are much more complicated and tiny, usually hollow, and often in runners and halves that you snap or glue together.

The parts of this kit look to be solid and in the usual number of pieces you find on a normal resin kit.
I'm not sure why you are confused?

Some Virtual On model kits are resin kits, and others are injection plastic kits. Whether they are made of regular plastic or resin doesn't change a thing in both being model kits... :?

Johnydark wrote:Viper2 thank you SO MUCH for filling me in again. (I can't decide if that's an amazing paint job or a horrible paint job.)
The guy has really good quality paintjobs (smooth, very few errors), but his choice of color is...special. :|
I think I'll be able to track this one down now.
Good luck!
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Porcupine »

How do you decide what is a model kit and what is not a model kit? What is your definition of a model kit?
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by ChexGuy »

Porcupine you're confusing the hell out of me with these two sentences here.
Porcupine wrote:I guess it's a typical white resin garage kit after all. I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's a model kit made of resin?
"typical white resin garage kit"
"what do you mean it's a model kit made of resin"

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? You call it a "garage kit" and you're asking what he means by calling it a model kit?! They're the same damn thing!

It comes in pieces. You have to assemble it. 99.99999999999% of the time you have to paint it to make it resemble anything. It's a model kit.
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Porcupine »

I think there are just various differences in terminology between us. That's fine especially since a lot of the terminology is vague and often used interchangeably.

To me, model kits and garage kits are not the same thing, though there can be some ambiguity between the two. My thoughts and definitions are as follows:

Model kits are generally made up of many more, tinier pieces than garage kits. Usually the pieces are made of plastic, hollow, and snap together in halves. Model kits are generally mass-production items that require expensive equipment and must therefore be made in factories, while garage kits are limited-production items that require no equipment investment, therefore are usually made out of resin and molds that anyone can do themselves in their house.

The goal of a model kit is to make the most detailed item you can with a given amount of material. Difficulty of assembly is irrelevant. Therefore models generally have a lot of pieces. A more complex assembly lets you make a more detailed item, and also often allows for the item to pose/move, as well as display simple colors without having to paint it (though a well-completed model is usually painted over nevertheless). Fragility of a model tends to be of minimal concern (they are often hollow and would break badly if you drop them or fall on top of them).

The goal of a garage kit is to make the most detailed item you can given your production limitations. The material must be limited to things like white resin (which is a strong material but not good to make hollow, because it will become soft, unlike plastic). Difficulty of assembly is moderately relevant, so there will be far less pieces. Usually the goal is to have the absolute minimum number of pieces possible. In theory it would be just one piece but usually there are a few pieces. The reason you have more than just one piece is mainly due to various limitations on the molding process (if you try to mold a complex item in one giant piece, there are sure to be random errors in the product, and it will be impossible to reach and patch them by hand afterwards without breaking the item apart anyway). They tend to be less fragile than models (still unable to survive drops but can survive being hit or crushed by small forces).

Mass-production figures follow most of the rules of garage kits except they can be made of PVC, plastic, or anything desired because the producer has the factories and machinery required to make them. Some people call these statues and not figures. Fragility of the item tends to be of moderate concern so it's not a good idea to follow the rules of models, plus they don't want to make the item ultra expensive by having a complex assembly process which their factory workers would have to do by hand.

Mass-production poseable figures follow the same rules as statues but have more complex pieces since they must move. If I count the typical number of pieces involved though, I think they are closer to statues than the models kits.

Anyway, kind of separate from the above rules, usually models tend to be of detailed mechanical things like robots, airplanes, or ships, while figures/statues tend to be of smooth things like girls. Since Fei-Yen is both, it is natural that she would become the subject of debate over which she is. :oops:
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by ChexGuy »

Thanks for clarifying your personal dictionary but I highly doubt anyone else in the world uses those distinctions. Everywhere I look has "garage kit" defined as a synonym for "resin kit" which tends to mean "model kit cast in resin" because there is absolutely nothing that ties the term "model kit" to part size, part count, or anything like that.

Hell, they call completed LEGO kits "LEGO models" so anyone could call those model kits too.
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Porcupine »

I have also defined a garage kit as a close synonym for resin kit, however I dispute your claim that it is globally accepted that they in turn mean "model kits cast in resin". You still have not provided your own definition of what you consider to be a model kit (and what you don't consider to be a model kit).

Right now it appears that you call everything a model kit.
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by ChexGuy »

If it's a scaled representation that has to be assembled, then it's a model kit.
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Porcupine »

Ok, got it.

Just to make sure, what is your definition of a model? (no kit word)
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by ChexGuy »

the "scaled representation" bit :V
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Viper2 »

...which is a definition that is used on about all scale modelling forums ever (and in books, and in catalogues, and by people who make model kits for a living - since about the inception of model kits several decades ago).

I...am not sure where you got those definitions of yours, porcupine. They are...weird. :shock:
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Porcupine »

To clarify further, by "scaled representation" do you mean that the item must be officially stated to be to scale on the box, or just that it appears to be a representation of something else?

For example, the Kaiyodo VOOT figures are not officially stated to be to scale even though they may be consistently sized with other officially scaled models.

As an aside, if your definitions originate from very old groups and people, there is no obligation for current collectors to continue their terminology. And neither can such old definitions automatically be extended to the current state of the industry, as times, technologies, and products have all changed. Anime and video games didn't even exist several decades ago.
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by ChexGuy »

Porcupine wrote:To clarify further, by "scaled representation" do you mean that the item must be officially stated to be to scale on the box, or just that it appears to be a representation of something else?
either/or. there are unscaled model kits as well, but they're still "scaled down," if you will.

(and 1:1 scale is still scaled, yeah?)
Porcupine wrote:As an aside, if your definitions originate from very old groups and people, there is no obligation for current collectors to continue their terminology. And neither can such old definitions automatically be extended to the current state of the industry, as times, technologies, and products have all changed.
what the hell does this even mean? "current collectors" aren't going to go around dumping on widely accepted terminology for their own agenda because it confuses the **** out of everyone involved. likewise, model manufacturers aren't going to about-face and call their models something else because that's goddamn stupid.
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Re: Any Idea Where I Could Get This A Lot Cheaper?

Post by Porcupine »

We are having some trouble communicating with our words, but I think you mean the second choice.

The question I posed was whether or not the item MUST have been OFFICIALLY stated to be to scale. So you could not choose 'either', it had to be one or the other. But I think you essentially meant the second choice.

Next, it's good that you clarified that 1:1 scale also counts as a "scaled representation" and thus, a model.

Now that your definitions have been clarified, I have a criticism of them of my own. Once again, by your definition, pretty much everything in the world is a model, so what is the point of using the word?

Under your definition, "statues" and "figures" are all subsets of "models" which to me seems odd. I have a hard time thinking of a sculpture that is carved in one piece from rock/ivory as a "model"....I would call that a statue but not a model.

Of course, you are free to use whatever terminology you like. But what you are not necessarily free to do is to declare that your terminology is widely accepted, as I stated earlier that I openly dispute that claim.

Finally, we must realize that here we are talking primarily about Japanese figures/models/items. They speak an entirely different language and the terminology they choose is up to them. Not until the anime figure industry was started a few years ago did they start to decide what to call things, and in all likelihood there is no established consistency over what they call a "model" versus a "figure" versus a "statue."

As I stated in an earlier post, although it makes sense in English to call certain things statues (such as premade anime girl non-poseable figures), almost no Japanese manufacturer or retailer labels these products as "statues." They usually label them as "figure" on the official product packaging.
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