Q-Steps on 360

[Unsubliminal]

http://www.insertcredit.com/archives/002628.html

[Testament/Seven7]

The article is a tad misleading. Quicksteps themselves are just fine, as far as i can tell...

I "am" having trouble initiating the attack during a quickstep though. But i've always had problems with that timing, since i've never really used it all that often. That'll have to change on my part.

[MentholMoose]

There are multiple factors. The timing for a quick step is normally pretty strict, so if they left it intact and didn't tone it down for the control pad, it will take time to learn the timing. I am using modded Twin Sticks, and I haven't noticed any difference with the quick step, so I don't think they changed anything. The main cause, though, is having to use analog inputs for movement, whereas VOOT only "sees" digital inputs. The analog buttons and thumb sticks both have dead zones, and you will have to get used to them to get the timing down.

Presumably, the analog dead zone is less than the entire range of the thumb stick or trigger, so the input will activate somewhere in between neutral and maximum. So for example, to do a quick step to the left, you need to press left on the analog stick 80% (arbitrary value, since I don't know the exact value) of the way just slightly after pressing the turbo button. The problem is exacerbated when also doing an attack. For example, to do a circle slice to the left, you press analog stick left 80% and at the same time as pressing the trigger button 80%, both just slightly after pressing the turbo button.

This problem didn't occur on Dreamcast VOOT because the digital directional pad was used for movement and digital face buttons for turbos.

Additionally, for online play, the timing will be messed up somewhat by lag.

My friend (Exile on these boards) had the same issue when using the Xbox 360 controller. However, when using my modded Twin Sticks, he had no problem performing various advanced CC maneuvers. He has basically only played Virtual-On with Twin Sticks (mainly arcade).

[Unsubliminal]

Good to hear its about on par with how it should be using the twin sticks...

[Exile]

i had no problem with cc tonight doing cw cancel to quick step to reverse swallow or like cw close combat and canceling it with quickstep attack, etc...

what I did have problem with though is doing standing walking attack and closing a stick to do the crouching attack, before I didn't have to put the sticks back to neutral to get the crouching attack, but now I do ugh... and some of those japanese players are gOooood i got owned.

[Flyer]

So the lesson here is twinsticks be good...

[MentholMoose]

Yeah, as long as you're familiar with them.

So the lesson here is twinsticks be good...

[Frostycyke]

The problem is exacerbated when also doing an attack. For example, to do a circle slice to the left, you press analog stick left 80% and at the same time as pressing the trigger button 80%, both just slightly after pressing the turbo button.

This is my biggest issue as well. I can do Quick steps on command, except in a real match, and then I usually scream for the opponent to get away and run like a little girl- But getting the attack to come out is hit and miss. I guess more time spent in practice mode and less time getting killed by japanese players.

[VMS]

I got a question: The insertcredit article seems to be claiming that arcade 5.66 quicksteps were made easier over 5.45 and even DC, with more forgiving timing. Can anyone confirm that?

I understand they're no problem when using twinsticks. But if the article's right, then they're even easier in the arcade with twinsticks and it would seem a patch is in order.

[MentholMoose]

I got a question: The insertcredit article seems to be claiming that arcade 5.66 quicksteps were made easier over 5.45 and even DC, with more forgiving timing. Can anyone confirm that?

I understand they're no problem when using twinsticks. But if the article's right, then they're even easier in the arcade with twinsticks and it would seem a patch is in order.

I don't really know if they changed the timing at all... I never noticed any difference between VER.5.4 on Model 3, VER.5.45 on DC, and VER.5.66 on Naomi. For a quick step, you press a turbo button followed by a direction some amount of time later. By how much can they even change this amount of time anyway?

[VMS]

For a quick step, you press a turbo button followed by a direction some amount of time later. By how much can they even change this amount of time anyway?

The article almost makes it sound like you can be moving in a sideways direction first, and then hit turbo (or vice versa) and the quickstep will activate (in arcade 5.66). Would be cool to know 100% but it's not a big deal.

[MentholMoose]

For a quick step, you press a turbo button followed by a direction some amount of time later. By how much can they even change this amount of time anyway?

The article almost makes it sound like you can be moving in a sideways direction first, and then hit turbo (or vice versa) and the quickstep will activate (in arcade 5.66). Would be cool to know 100% but it's not a big deal.

If this were the case, how would you dash out of CC range? You have to be stationary to quick-step, including in VER.5.66 arcade. If you're moving in a direction and press turbo, you will dash. Maybe I should get out my Naomi 5.66 setup and do some A/B testing, although I doubt there is any difference.

[DarK-SuN]

Odd, I haven't noticed any difference in Q-stepping for this version of VOOT.
It must really be related with the analog sticks instead of being digital like in the DC VOOT.
Twin Sticks solve it quickly; still need to get that, using a twin stick setup with the 360 gamepad feels awkward for me due to the way the analogs aren't at the same height.

[VMS]

If this were the case, how would you dash out of CC range? You have to be stationary to quick-step, including in VER.5.66 arcade.

That's right, it would be impossible to dash away.

It must just be the dead zone people are having problems with. Any attempt to patch that would significantly alter the entire game. Good to know - thanks for helping me think through it

[Gasaraki]

I have finally figured out how to quickstep on the 360 pad so that ANYONE can do it practically. Rather than trying to time it EXACTLY, just tap turbo RIGHT before moving. It makes a HUMONGOUS difference and the window with which to input a direction after the turbo press is actually rather wide, considering. If you want to do an QS attack, just piano it: RT/LT->direction->attack in quick succession

=)

[Cacophanus]

There are multiple factors. The timing for a quick step is normally pretty strict, so if they left it intact and didn't tone it down for the control pad, it will take time to learn the timing. I am using modded Twin Sticks, and I haven't noticed any difference with the quick step, so I don't think they changed anything. The main cause, though, is having to use analog inputs for movement, whereas VOOT only "sees" digital inputs. The analog buttons and thumb sticks both have dead zones, and you will have to get used to them to get the timing down.

Presumably, the analog dead zone is less than the entire range of the thumb stick or trigger, so the input will activate somewhere in between neutral and maximum. So for example, to do a quick step to the left, you need to press left on the analog stick 80% (arbitrary value, since I don't know the exact value) of the way just slightly after pressing the turbo button. The problem is exacerbated when also doing an attack. For example, to do a circle slice to the left, you press analog stick left 80% and at the same time as pressing the trigger button 80%, both just slightly after pressing the turbo button.

This problem didn't occur on Dreamcast VOOT because the digital directional pad was used for movement and digital face buttons for turbos.

Additionally, for online play, the timing will be messed up somewhat by lag.

My friend (Exile on these boards) had the same issue when using the Xbox 360 controller. However, when using my modded Twin Sticks, he had no problem performing various advanced CC maneuvers. He has basically only played Virtual-On with Twin Sticks (mainly arcade).

The issue is definitely present on the pad though and considering that the vast majority of people playing the 360 port are using the pad, it seems only fair to highlight the issue (something that SEGA are aware of btw).

I've had my spare pair of Dreamcast sticks modded though and you're right that they negate the problem entirely but like I said, in the grand scheme of things, that's a tad moot.

[Zaarock]

considering that the vast majority of people playing the 360 port are using the pad, it seems only fair to highlight the issue (something that SEGA are aware of btw)

Really? I wasnt expecting people to be using the 360 pad as I find it to be really horrible. Are you sure people are really using it much? I even had to prefer my analog with a broken deadzone while playing for example ikaruga.

[Cacophanus]

Really? I wasnt expecting people to be using the 360 pad as I find it to be really horrible. Are you sure people are really using it much? I even had to prefer my analog with a broken deadzone while playing for example ikaruga.

The number of people playing the game on modded sticks is very small, even in Japan. Most people are using the pad.

[Zaarock]

Doh, sorry. I was messing up dpad with pad, was too late to press the delete button as you were online and replying

[Cacophanus]

Doh, sorry. I was messing up dpad with pad, was too late to press the delete button as you were online and replying

Gotcha, unfortunately the 360's d-pad is pretty horrid in terms of consistency of input so it creates more problems for most players.

I'm not saying that quick steps are impossible on the pad, just harder than they were originally (with the sticks).