MSBS 16.33

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Palmpoa
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MSBS 16.33

Post by Palmpoa »

Welcome to Dynamic Technologies Mind Shift Battle System 16.33, the unofficial fan remake of Virtual On!

This is currently dead. There will be no update until temjin is released. I will only reply to this topic with a release build.

Planned:

-platform-
UE4
License free (sega denied)
VR plugin and validation for online play and anticheat
client server model

-format-
1v1
2v2
5v5obj (marz)
differing damage calculation for each set

-vr-
analog to VOOT and tfocused FORCE

-interface-
eightkey digital
analogconvdigital
analog

servers enforce ruleset by control type due to difference between analog and digital control
PAD and TWINSTICK layout, fully customizable interface. Support for multiple controllers

Q/A: (any post after my current last post I will answer here)
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Zaarock
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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

Post by Zaarock »

Sounds like the project is going very well! Very happy to see something like this.

I'm assuming you're developing the input system based on Twin Sticks? Are you going to have left and right turbo attacks like VOOT?

Dashes and watari dashes being significantly different between VRs sounds strange. It might turn off playing multiple characters if base mechanics change a lot. 747F needing two input pressed instead of one for a watari dash seems redundant, it's not going to make it any more difficult if the player is used to the controls.

Personally I don't think V-Armor is high priority, it mostly encourages turtling in VOOT where it's already easy to go for timeout in high level play. Few players also actually know the ranges or exact attacks that could be blocked by armor as well, because they vary so much between VR, distance and attacks. Then again it's essential for VRs like Dordray to work I guess, and you're making it work differently from VOOT.

Lowered mobility Kagekiyo sounds very weird to me since in VO4 Kagekiyo is basically the most mobile VR with the shortest recovery times. Then again Myzr(Cypher) did get significantly reduced mobility/changed role in Force. Kagekiyo's playstyle in Force is mainly about staying close up and constantly switching between shots and melee, concentrating on unsafe long range projectiles and melee at the same time sounds hard to combine. Imagining Kagekiyo in a VOOT style game sounds sort of like Apharmd B but with a temjin style RW.

If the details are being translated japanese I assume you're also asking japanese players for input? I bet you can get a ton of feedback then.
VOOT 2019 guide | VO4 Guide | 2009-generation
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Palmpoa
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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

Post by Palmpoa »

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Palmpoa
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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

Post by Palmpoa »

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Zaarock
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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

Post by Zaarock »

I know that you can use Google Drive to host websites for free (just upload all the files, then set to be public as webpage). I'm not sure about what restrictions it has but I think it should work for that purpose. There are probably other ways to set it up too.

Looking forward to testing stuff out! I might actually record or stream tests too.

What I meant about the twinsticks was that if you want to support them, the way that the inputs work has to be based on them. And keyboards / gamepads would emulate twin sticks (left rotate is 2-6 for example) . I guess in theory you could also do it the other way around, but that would cause conficts with the previous games mechanics.
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ChexGuy
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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

Post by ChexGuy »

Zaarock wrote:What I meant about the twinsticks was that if you want to support them, the way that the inputs work has to be based on them. And keyboards / gamepads would emulate twin sticks (left rotate is 2-6 for example) . I guess in theory you could also do it the other way around, but that would cause conflicts with the previous games mechanics.
d'you mean the gamepad controls would need to be the Marz-style twinstick controls where the two analog sticks acted as joysticks, or having a layout similar to the 360/Dreamcast gamepad controls where the inputs would essentially be macros based on twinstick controls? The problem with the former is that it'd be hella uncomfortable and a bit weird to use...
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Palmpoa
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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

Post by Palmpoa »

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Zaarock
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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

Post by Zaarock »

Palmpoa wrote:THINGS
Not a fan of the idea of triple jump.

I'm assuming if you add something like that the height ceiling would be similar to OT? One of my only gripes with VOOT is that the height ceiling is too high to work with how few attacks are good for anti-air. Cypher, Angelan and to some extent other VR like Temjin can waste tons of time by floating around at maximum double jump height and not attacking, delaying landing etc. (yes, I play the two VR that can do this very well and it's stupid).

If you were to make attacks have more vertical homing it still wouldn't work that well I'd imagine because the OT camera can barely see anything happening above your VR. Since VRs can only attack one in the air (generally) having even higher height ceiling would encourage timeout even more than OT (up to debate if that's a good thing I guess..)

Air movement technique in OT/VO4 (instant air dash, rotating air dash cancels, watari dash sequences etc.) are already pretty complicated and require high execution, adding more mechanics might make it even harder to get into. Same thing with three dash speeds, this adds more complexity. (and does OT dash CC really need a nerf?)

Having two 'air jumps' would also mean you have two delayble vertical dodge opportunities upon starting a jump (can dodge attack for each jump), I don't see the benefit in this.. it might just make empty jumps stronger than they are in OT.

Float mechanic I can't comment on, haven't played EXVS. Sounds alright. Angelan's air row in OT is fairly similar to the floating mechanic I guess.

Fei-Yen BlueHeart from VO4 would be interesting to see, it's very different from the OMG & OT fei-yens and has some fun attacks (but limited mobility). BTW Jane is a top tier VR in force, maybe that explains some things.

If the game is going to have VOOT-scale VR movelists I wouldn't recommend working on multiple Bal VR until at least one is done. VOOT Bal is already insanely complicated since detached ERL have their own attacks, along with tens of special techniques and then glitches on top of that. Really the reason force has three Bal is because they had to split the VR into parts due to much smaller moveset. Only Tigla/Rimso is pretty unique.

Progress sounds great overall again! and I bet you can get a whole lot more feedback from japanese players than here
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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

Post by Porcupine »

I don't think VOOT has a true height ceiling, except on Bradtos mid-boss stage. I think Zaarock just meant the maximum jump heights, as opposed to a technical ceiling mechanic. There is a triple jump in VOOT that always works but it is a bug, and since you can jump from on top an obstacle you can effectively quadruple jump in VOOT, if your only goal is to fly as high as possible. Sometimes when you get hit with Cypher daggers while jumping you fly up even higher. It could be that the highest you can float up with a dagger in your butt is the height ceiling, but you don't always float up the exact same amount so I don't think a height ceiling is what makes you stop.
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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

Post by Palmpoa »

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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

Post by ChexGuy »

I'll leave actual gameplay to...well, people who play the game.

Question about controls - how are gamepad controls handled? I think the the Dreamcast port had jump and crouch as macros of stick commands, but they had higher button priority so you could jump or crouch while a movement direction was already being held instead of freezing in place and/or having to go back to neutral to jump.

(I have twinsticks as well so whenever you're ready to release something for testing, I can try both out)
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Re: A comprehensive look at MSBS 16.33 progress.

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