advanced techniques

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Quad
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Quad » 04 Aug 2013, 06:44

Oh the Big Four. In VOOM, don't even bother doing a CW dash cancel. Press both your triggers and dash button and movement all at the same time.

CW+T+L/R.

All characters have the Big Four. It's just that Temjin's is the only useful one. It's the same number of side-dash projectiles using the forward dash projectile firing / shot properties.
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tallgeese
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby tallgeese » 15 Aug 2013, 23:13

Hey guys,

Been playing for a while now, but haven't joined the forums and after reading all these techniques, I guess I know nothing at all about VOOT. Anyways, I just wanted to ask a question because I recently bought VOOT for xbox. Has Cypher's dashing and air dash CC changed? I'm having trouble doing both, I had no trouble at all with doing these on the dreamcast, but now its like I get them 1/20 tries. I'm still doing forward dash then holding back + a, but I keep normal attacks.

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Zaarock
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Zaarock » 16 Aug 2013, 06:00

Holding down or rotation before attack is exactly how dash CC comes out. I can't think of any reason why it would be inconsistent.. maybe the down button on your d-pad (if playing on pad) is worn out?

As a side note for LW/RW dash CC it's almost always better to trigger it by rotating, since you can aim/rotate your swing during the whole startup and attack.

I might make a small cypher guide and/or some advanced tech guide sometime soon, since chances are I'll be less active in the future and there's no reason for people here not to know stuff the japanese players use all the time

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Re: advanced techniques

Postby tallgeese » 16 Aug 2013, 08:23

Hmm, thanks. I tried on two different controllers. I'll have to do try it again. I didn't know you could do it with the rotate. A guide would be awesome. Still can't do the daggers technique. Excited to get back into this though.

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Porcupine
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Porcupine » 16 Aug 2013, 20:11

Your down on the controller pad probably doesn't work. It doesn't work on any of mine either and I can't do dashing CC with it. In general, a crapped out direction (here it's down) may work if you slowly move to it and keep it held down, but in reality you can't baby the controls like that and when you hit that direction quickly, it won't register and it's not your fault.

I tried out like 10 Xbox 360 controller pads and I found that on all of them, exactly one of the principle directions would be iffy. Usually it's down (you'll get down-diagonal instead) but on some controllers it was up, etc. Zaarock said he used the same controller forever and it works perfect so he might be one of the lucky ones. ;)

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Re: advanced techniques

Postby tallgeese » 16 Aug 2013, 21:00

Thanks. I tried out training mode again and for whatever reason it works when I hold down and diagonal right. Doesn't work with diagonal left. Air dash works the same way. It's weird,but it works.

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Re: advanced techniques

Postby neo helbeast » 13 Apr 2014, 22:43

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Zaarock
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Zaarock » 07 Oct 2014, 10:36

KATENASASOSU(very active online bal player) has found a setup to get people infinite stunlocked by constant landing freeze with Bal upon doing a glitched/invisible pyramid, oh man. No idea on the details but any bal players can probably ask him, he knows english and has always shared his tech. I'm assuming the opponent has to be on the ground at a correct moment though so it's not completely ridiculous.

He also figured out a quaranteed combo of pyramid into reflect laser about a year ago. Scary stuff.

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Zaarock
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Zaarock » 17 Mar 2015, 11:28

Bal advanced technique dump (unfinished, I've only begun playing Bal)

empty ammo into demon mines
in 5.66 doing the demon mine special attack depletes all ammo of an ERL. But you can do the attack even when the right ERL has no ammo, so it's beneficial to combo into.

examples:

left and right legs detached, left B right M.
cRW (uses all ammo)
side dash cLW - demon mines

left and right arms detached, left B right M.
jRTRW (uses all ammo)
walking RW (to delay ERL from coming back)
side air dash LW - demon mines

repeat pyramid
as a pyramid ends, input cRTW again exactly when the ERLs disappear from sight (back into Bal). Not hard timing with practice.


invisible / ‘shadow sewing’ pyramid
Form a pyramid just as a single ERL is returning from any CW attack. Fairly lenient timing. The point/vertex formed by that ERL will now be positioned where Bal was upon forming the pyramid, and any walls from that ERL will start from Bal’s location.

Easy and usually most effective to do with a half-cancelled cCW (call back the other ERL).

Trying to displace more than one ERL is pointless, since with two points in the same place you will only form one wall.

Called invisible because the visual pyramid is wrong, only one wall is visually correct (the one that doesn’t involve the missing point). If positioned incorrectly this makes the pyramid not trap the enemy (because the bottom triangle is away from them) Otherwise you can form a much larger than normal pyramid.


moving invisible wall
Followup from invisible pyramid. As the pyramid disappears, alternate left and right weapon quickly (so called one-two punch) to prevent the ERL from coming back to bal. The two arm ERL will keep forming a triangular wall with the point where Bal is. This works since the ERL forming one of the corners is inside Bal and will keep forming the third point of the wall.

See this page for very detailed info http://11th.dai-mine3.net/labo/del.html



Special combination attack examples
These are by no means the only/best ways to combine specials, and some of them may be impractical. In practice you often have to adapt to the situation and can't just use flowcharts. But these should at least give a good basis to learning how combination attacks into Pyramid, etc. can be formed.

Special timing

It's possible to make ERLs that are returning to Bal be part of special attacks if the attack is performed exactly before they attach back to Bal. Missing this timing means they wont be used. Combos marked here with 'difficult timing' usually mean this is required. The timing seems more lenient for the cRTCW Pyramid than jRTCW reflect laser.

basic rapid reflect setups

house -> rapid reflector
jump LTRW
cCW ‘house’
jRTRW - rapid reflector

air dash vulcans -> rapid reflector
jump LTLW
weapon switch
side air dash CW right half-cancel
cLTLW
jRTLW - rapid reflector

basic cw reflect setups

arms detached -> demon mines -> RT vulcans -> half/full CW reflector
left arm B right M
side air dash LW
RTCW right half-cancel
cLTLW
jRTCW - two turrets with perfect timing, one without

legs detached -> demon mines -> RT vulcans -> half/full CW reflector
left leg B right M
side dash cLW
RTCW right half-cancel
LTLW
jRTCW - two turrets with perfect timing, one without

legs detached -> flashbang -> unaimed CW reflector
back dash CW
jRTCW - full CW reflector, but stops aiming after first shot

difficult/experimental rapid reflect combos

side vulcans -> rapid reflector -> full CW reflector / Pyramid
jump LTLW
weapon switch
side air dash CW right half-cancel
jRTLW - rapid reflector
cLTLW
JRTCW - full CW reflector (difficult timing) OR cRTCW

half-house -> side vulcans -> rapid reflector -> full CW reflector / Pyramid
cCW
cLTRW (house half cancel)
jLTLW
side air dash CW right half-cancel
jRTLW - rapid reflect laser
jRTCW - full CW reflect laser (difficult timing) OR cRTCW

house -> rapid reflect -> side vulcans -> rapid reflect -> full cw reflect / Pyramid
jLTRW
cCW - house
jRTRW - rapid reflect
jLTLW
weapon switch
air side dash CW right half-cancel - side vulcans
JRTLW - rapid reflect
JRTCW - full cw reflect (difficult timing) OR cRTCW

house -> rapid reflect -> half-house -> rapid reflect -> full cw reflect / Pyramid
jLTRW
cCW - house
jRTRW - rapid reflect
jLTLW
weapon switch
cCW - half-cancel house
LTRW & delay OR jLTRW (tighter timing)
JRTLW - rapid reflect
JRTCW - full cw reflect (difficult timing) OR cRTCW

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Palmpoa
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Palmpoa » 10 Sep 2015, 14:45

Code: Select all

16.33 (.021)
21 VR...

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Zaarock
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Zaarock » 09 Jan 2016, 04:39

Probably common knowledge for veterans but haven't seen this posted:

Sugihara cancel (QS)
1. hold a sideways direction before dash attack or landing recovery
2. upon start of recovery input RT+melee weapon
optional (QSCC): quickly input melee weapon again for quickstep melee
cancels recovery into quickstep on the first possible frame. the quickstep triggers just on pushing the turbo button instead of needing to hold and release.

I guess the game auto-releases your turbo input on recovery, melee attack cancels the recovery but because of turbo being released the melee gets cancelled into quickstep.
Important technique for many VR (Aph B, Temjin, etc.)

The risk is you need to be sure you're in melee range or a RT projectile attack will come out which is very punishable.

Sugihara cancel in general seems to mean using melee to cancel recovery, for example into quickstep or guard. If people try to melee you on recovery cancelling into guard is faster than jumping. High level players use this a lot if you look at how they guard and quickstep.

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Zaarock
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Zaarock » 01 Feb 2016, 05:39

Bal tech listing cont.

house -> true double rapid reflector -> full reflector
jLTRW
cCW (house)
jRTRW
type change
LTLW
type change
jRTLW
jRTCW (return timing required)

^optimized w/ bouncing mine cluster
jLTRW
cCW
jRTRW
LTLW
type change
jRTLW
cLTRW
type change
cRW
jRTCW (return timing required)

edit: not sure if pyramid is consistent for these two:
house -> true double rapid reflector -> delta/pyramid (shadow sewing)
jLTRW
cCW
jRTRW
type change
LTLW
type change
jRTLW
cRTCW (return timing) as half-cCW ERL is in middle of returning

claw -> true double rapid reflector -> full reflector or delta/pyramid
jLTRW
forward dash cCW
jRTRW
type change
LTLW
type change
jRTLW
cLTLW
jRTCW or cRTCW (return timing required)

tripwire -> delta/pyramid
LTLW
LTRW
backdash cCW (hit only)
cRTCW (return timing required)
(could probably do shadow sewing with left half-cancel CW before but that's not going to be consistent)

Elevator glitch
delta/pyramid
move next to left arm ERL and do left half-cancel CW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAzQHV-RFsc

Rocket punch w/ stun laser
jCW
CC RTRW as stun laser activates (aims at opponent regardless of jCW behaviour)
if timed right stuns the opponent from range into guaranteed CC hit & does not knock down the opponent

edit1:

house -> vulcan -> half reflector -> rapid reflector -> full reflector
note: extremely difficult

cCW
LTRW
type change
(air forward dash RW)
CW left half-cancel
(walking RW)
jRTCW (return timing required) as half-CW ERL is in middle of returning. do at low altitude.
type change
jLTLW from auto-jump out of jRTCW
move away from ERLs during jump
type change
jRTLW (return timing required)
cLTLW
jRTCW (return timing required)

^left side variant - slightly easier
cCW
LTLW
(air side dash LW)
CW right half-cancel
(walking LW)
jRTCW (return timing required) as half-CW ERL is in middle of returning. do at low altitude.
type change
jLTRW from auto-jump out of jRTCW
move away from ERLs during jump
jRTRW (return timing required)
cLTRW
jRTCW (return timing required)

Shadow sewing extension - half house
if shadow sewing was done with leg ERL, use cCW as the Delta/Pyramid starts dissipating. Follow into moving wall (LW & RW spam to delay ERL from returning)

vulcan -> rocket punch -> half reflector -> rapid reflector -> full reflector
close range only

RTCW left half cancel
cLTRW
fwd dash cRW
CC RTRW (rocket punch) guard/jump cancel
jRTCW (return timing required) at low altitude.
type change
jLTLW from auto-jump out of jRTCW
move away from ERLs during jump
type change
jRTLW (return timing required)
cLTLW
jRTCW (return timing required)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CvAbsARbKQ

I think it might be possible to do an infinite reflect laser chain using rocket punch melee to remove the right arm ERL from JRTCW, but it's really hard to pull off as is the link from rapid reflect to jRTCW.

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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Porcupine » 09 Feb 2016, 18:32

Here are miscellaneous things, some of which haven't been mentioned before.

Jump CC - Does not necessarily require any yellow CC gauges or lock-on. Enemy must be within horizontal CC range, but vertical distance to the enemy is ignored. Yellow CC bars don't appear unless opponents are 30m or less above ground (50m or less, for Apharmd B) but jump CC ignores this requirement.

Electric Stun Mashing - Mashing movement directions (including jump and crouch) lets you get out of electric stuns faster. It's really important for long-lasting electric stuns like Raiden's laser cage, and is usually less important for short-lasting electric stuns like Angelan plain RW. Most electric stuns are inflicted randomly, according to a set percentage that varies with the attack.

Electric Stun Combo - While in an electric stun you can't get staggered or knocked down and are vulnerable to big combos, though mashing typically limits followups to a single hit.

Aerial Electric Stun Combo - When put into an electric stun while in the air, your VR will slowly drop straight down when it ends, thus being open for different types of combos. Often a CC followup is possible, even if starting from a distance. Forward dash CC CW, or jump CC, are popular followups.

Aerial Electric Stun Escape - If you press jump on the very first frame of recovery while being electric stunned in the air, you will jump instead of dropping down. Like usual, your VR will be able to maneuver, jump cancel, air dash, etc. Extremely difficult to time and in practice needs luck. If you mash jump too rapidly, you decrease your chances of getting this because one of your jump inputs will probably count as a mash and cause recovery, preventing the frame perfect jump from being entered the frame afterwards.

Aerial Electric Stun Escape Jump CC - You can substitute a perfectly timed jump CC for the jump, and escape an aerial electric stun even when you are already super high in the air, coming crashing down on the opponent from a tremendous height. Can punish aerial electric stun combo attempts.

Ice Crystal Mashing - When frozen by Angelan's RTRW ice techniques, mashing gets you out faster, possibly preventing some combos, and will correspondingly reduce the amount of life drain from the ice. The duration remains long even if you mash, so many people don't realize it's mashable. When frozen in the air, the special jump escape is not possible.

Confusion Hearts Mashing - When inflicted with the dizzy love hearts of (usually hyper) Fei-Yen, mashing makes them go away faster. You don't have to visibly wiggle when mashing. You can take any action, such as dashing, jumping, or shooting, and mash invisibly while performing that action. Most Japanese players mash, but they stay in place and wiggle.

Shoot plain RW over walls - While standing still, rotate briefly and stop, then immediately do a forward walking RW. Works with Temjin and Apharmd C. I think there was also another way to do this, but I can't remember what it was.

Cancel plain RW into any instant standing attack - While standing still, rotate briefly and stop, then immediately do a brief walking RW and quickly stop walking, then promptly input any other standing attack. This is a property of machinegun RWs, changing the second RW projectile into a standing attack of your choice, which will come out instantly with no animation. Works with Fei-Yen, Apharmd B, Bal (not too useful as he can chain RW into LW by default), Cypher (difficult), and strangely Apharmd S and C even though their RW is not a true machinegun. Does not work with 10/80 SP or Ajim. Most useful to perform a quicker turbo prediction attack, like RW --> RTCW for Fei-Yen. This technique has tricky timing but nothing that is frame perfect so it can be done reliably with practice. There are two other ways to get this same cancel but they are more difficult. The most difficult way needs no rotation but instead requires multiple frame perfect inputs.

Cancel walking RW into any other walking attack - While shooting walking RW, let the sticks go to neutral then immediately press a direction again and do the followup walking attack (it will come out with the normal startup animation). Works best with Fei-Yen, Apharmd B, Bal, Cypher, Temjin, and Angelan. Temjin can chain walking RW into walking RW to do a moving version of his machinegun technique that is usually performed stationary.

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Porcupine
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Porcupine » 15 Mar 2017, 16:29

Thanks to playing with VMS on the PS3 last winter, I finally started to get some real experience in VOOM. I am pretty sure now that doing the Big Four requires the direction to be pressed exactly 1 frame after pressing CW. That's just from feeling, experience, and testing, but not frame-perfect testing (which I've also learned how to do since then but have not applied to VOOM yet). There's also a second way to do the "Big Four" with Apharmd that is easy and does not require a frame-perfect input. Just walk sideways for a bit then do a CW cancel (with lock-on) into a forward dash RW. The CW cancel needs to be performed quickly but does not need to be frame-perfect in this variation. This technique results in a fast forward dash that moves fully sideways, and fires forward dash RW. The limitation is that you need to actually be free to walk sideways and do so for a short while, so it cannot be started inside a dash attack freeze.

The normal way of doing the Big Four with Apharmd is to do a frame-perfect CW cancel into a side dash RW, which results in an actual side dash (moves a bit slower) that fires the forward dash RW attack.

The next-gen advanced, powerful VOOM technique that we only recently uncovered is how to do fast, and forward-moving dash cancels. They are trivial in VOOT but difficult in VOOM because you are required to press back and turbo to cancel your dash. To get dash cancels to move forward quickly in VOOM, you apply the "imaginary walking" rule that holds for all VO games. During the dash, you hold forward for a fair length of time (maybe half a second) to build up imaginary forward walking speed, then press turbo and tap back as briefly as possible, then immediately hold forward again. This technique can also be used to "watari dash" in VOOM in a sense by using modified directions (use the dash cancel to quickly change your direction of movement by 90 degrees).

This isn't quite related, but in VOOT my new method of frame-perfect testing has confirmed that Specineff's "super jump" glitch is indeed done by pressing jump+LT+RT+CW simultaneously (LT and RT can be pressed earlier). The jump input is not 1 frame later.

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Porcupine
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Porcupine » 15 Mar 2017, 17:00

Today I figured out how the partial invincibility of VOOT Temjin's spinning sword works. It's different than I expected.

From the moment he starts a spinning sword special, Temjin gains a partial invincible status. It lasts forever until removed, even after the spinning sword ends! There are no visible graphics to indicate this status. During it, Temjin has increased resistance to stagger/knockdown. He still takes full damage from any attack that manages to hurt him, but is invincible to other attacks.

To remove this status, a certain amount of stagger/knockdown must be inflicted upon him through attacks. The threshold amount seems to be what it would take to knock him down if he were in normal status. The damage of these attacks is irrelevant to reaching the threshold, except that the first attack to reach the threshold will do its damage. Unlike normal stagger/knockdown calculations, Temjin does not recover his stability with time, when it comes to taking down this partial invincibility.

Due to his increased knockdown resistance while invincible, some borderline knockdown attacks will leave Temjin standing after inflicting their damage. In rare cases this can result in more damage than normal.

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Porcupine
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Re: advanced techniques

Postby Porcupine » 28 Mar 2017, 16:20

Some Bal observations. For all his regular CW attacks, the arm and leg bits fly in deliberately random trajectories toward the enemy, but the final positions that they end up is always the same. However, these positions aren't relative to where Bal and his enemy are facing, but relative to the orientation of the stage. This is probably helpful knowledge in avoiding Bal's demon rings technique. If you know what direction Bal's right arm bit is going to fire from, dashing away from that direction can probably avoid the demon ring spread for sure. This way you don't have to jump, or rely on luck to dash the rings successfully.

This also means that firing more arm bits, for example with RTCW, or just neglecting to half-cancel, does have slight benefit even though the damage doesn't necessarily increase, because it will be slightly harder to dodge, coming from up to 4 directions surrounding the target. But it's still easily dodgeable anyway since the CW bits fire from a short distance above. On this topic, note that Bal's ground and air side dash CW attacks, which are often half-canceled, can actually fire up to 3 bits, two arms and one leg. Neoken discussed it incompletely here, but the trick is to for example do a right dash CW[R][L][R] or left dash CW[L][R][L] with very good timing. The CW ammo usage is the same as a normal half-cancel if done right, so Bal can shoot up to 3 bits for free if he wants to. He can also shoot as few as no bits by doing the half-cancels backward, for example right dash CW[L][R][L] with "bad" timing.

The random trajectories of the bits don't matter except for things like the demon rings or demon mines, if you fire them while the bits are still traveling. This might be pretty useful with demon mines because you can spread them around at randomized starting positions. To shoot demon mines out of the moving arm bit, set out the left arm bit with LTLW, then fire CW[R], then hit Select to switch weapons and do air side dash LW. This is probably more effective from far away because the time it takes the arm bits to reach the enemy is always the same, so by starting farther away the arm bits move faster and arc in wider random paths. For some reason, shooting the demon mines at point-blank range with this trick isn't that hard to dodge like it supposedly was in older versions of VOOT, so Bal players use demon rings instead now.


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