Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

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Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Elternteil » 21 Jun 2009, 22:18

Hi guys, it's the new guy.

I saw this guide: http://healthya.web.fc2.com/xbox360ts/01.html
and it looks like something I could do.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like all I need is to solder the wires to connect a wired Xbox 360 controller and Saturn VO Twin Stick.

I found an $80 Saturn Twin stick, and the wired 360 pads only go for only about $20 used.
My only real problem is where to get that cable thing (that big cable with the little wires inside seen in step 2 from the site above) - it looks like I need 2 of them too. You guys know what they're called and some good places to get them?

From the looks of it, I might be spending about $200 on this... maybe a lot less, and I get to learn to make custom controllers too.

So what do you think guys?
Thanks ;)
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Testament/Seven7 » 21 Jun 2009, 22:23

Question, if i may...

Where'd you find $80 twinsticks, and is there more than one set?
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Elternteil » 21 Jun 2009, 22:24

Testament/Seven7 wrote:Question, if i may...

Where'd you find $80 twinsticks, and is there more than one set?
You could find them on online auctions like eBay.
What did you mean by more than one set?
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Testament/Seven7 » 21 Jun 2009, 22:33

Elternteil wrote:
Testament/Seven7 wrote:Question, if i may...

Where'd you find $80 twinsticks, and is there more than one set?
You could find them on online auctions like eBay.
What did you mean by more than one set?
more than one set for $80...i haven't seen prices that low in a while...on ebay anyway.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Elternteil » 21 Jun 2009, 22:34

Not sure.

The ones listed now (on eBay anyway) go for about $100-$200.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Testament/Seven7 » 21 Jun 2009, 22:35

Yeah, i've got my sights set on one later this week if i can....
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Elternteil » 22 Jun 2009, 01:20

Interesting,

After reading more in the forums, I found out that this specific modding is pretty common (probably because it's easier and/or cheaper?).

I already got a drill and an xbox system/controller disassembling tool kit.

So, based on the guide, it seems all I need now are:
- soldering iron (Home Depot is my neighbor)
- two of those cable thingies with the thin wires inside (what is it called? and where do I get it?).
- electrical tape
- a wired Xbox 360 controller (cheap and easy to find).
- the Saturn twin stick (not here yet but it's coming).

Let me know if I missed anything.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Dreamcazman » 22 Jun 2009, 02:13

You don't really need the cable that guy used in the guide unless you'd like to use the 360 controller as a controller. If you don't mind sacrificing it, simply install it internally which will make the whole process a lot easier, plus it will look neater.

Also, just a heads up, I wouldn't use the official M$ controller. For one they aren't common ground (ie share the same ground) which makes wiring a bitch and two, the solder points are very small and can easily be ripped up if you aren't careful. I'd go for one of the Madcatz (or rebranded Gamestop) pads, usually they're cheaper and easier to work with.

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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by MentholMoose » 22 Jun 2009, 08:27

Elternteil wrote:My only real problem is where to get that cable thing (that big cable with the little wires inside seen in step 2 from the site above) - it looks like I need 2 of them too. You guys know what they're called and some good places to get them?
It is a VGA monitor cable, and you only need one for that guide. You will need a cable with one female connector and one male (e.g. an extension cable). Cut it in half and follow the guide. You don't need to use a VGA cable anyway, just any cable that has in-line connectors. For example, you could make your own cable using Molex or other connectors. For my modded arcade Twin Sticks, I used AMP connectors since they are the standard for arcade control panels.
Elternteil wrote:- soldering iron (Home Depot is my neighbor)
If you are near a Frys, check there first. Compared to Home Depot, Frys has a better selection of soldering irons and supplies (replacement tips, solder, desoldering braid, flux, etc.) and probably cheaper prices. They also have a large selection of wire, cable (including monitor cables), and connectors. Radio Shack is another option but has higher prices and worse selection than Frys.
Dreamcazman wrote:You don't really need the cable that guy used in the guide unless you'd like to use the 360 controller as a controller.
Realistically it is not comfortable to use a controller with a huge monitor cable extending from it, so I think the main purpose of the "external" mod is to be able to use the modified control pad with multiple controllers. For example, you can use the same modded Xbox 360 controller with Twin Sticks and a Street Fighter type arcade stick. Also, you can modify additional controllers, and use the modified Twin Sticks with multiple systems. My arcade Twin Sticks currently can be easily changed between DC, Xbox 360, and Naomi, and I could modify a PS2 controller if I wanted to use them for OMG on PS2.
Dreamcazman wrote:If you don't mind sacrificing it, simply install it internally which will make the whole process a lot easier, plus it will look neater.
This is true. Having an Xbox 360 controller hanging out of Twin Sticks is actually pretty ugly! :lol:
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Elternteil » 22 Jun 2009, 09:53

Wow that's a lot of info!
Thanks!

I just got back from Home Depot (it's darn close) and got myself some electrical tape, soldering iron, and soldering wire.
It appears they don't have those VGA monitor cable as I expected.

I searched around in ebay and those VGA cables are dirt cheap, like the owners just want to get rid of them even if it means losing a few bucks. However, from what I read on the guide I posted above, I see that dude bought a cable with a specific model number. Do you guys have any recommendation for VGA monitor cables? or can I just buy any of them as long as they're the ones with both male and female connector that I could cut in half (from the pictures, I see what you mean) ? I'm a little concerned whether the one I'm gonna buy would have enough wires inside for me to connect.

While I would really prefer having "internal mod", I'm not really confident at drilling extra holes on the twin stick's body to put on the home button, and the headset slot, etc. Although I'm really tempted to, and if you have any tips, I'd really appreciate it.

So official Microsoft Xbox 360 wired controllers are no go? Can I just buy any Madcatz or Gamestop branded controller then?
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by MentholMoose » 22 Jun 2009, 12:05

Dreamcazman wrote:Also, just a heads up, I wouldn't use the official M$ controller. For one they aren't common ground (ie share the same ground) which makes wiring a bitch and two, the solder points are very small and can easily be ripped up if you aren't careful. I'd go for one of the Madcatz (or rebranded Gamestop) pads, usually they're cheaper and easier to work with.
Elternteil wrote:So official Microsoft Xbox 360 wired controllers are no go? Can I just buy any Madcatz or Gamestop branded controller then?
The best option is a MadCatz, or a Gamestop-rebranded MadCatz. The newer official controllers are actually common ground, but they still have small solder points, while I think all MadCatz controllers are common ground and have large solder points. For the solder points, check the "PCB Diagrams" section on this slagcoin.com page.
Elternteil wrote:I searched around in ebay and those VGA cables are dirt cheap, like the owners just want to get rid of them even if it means losing a few bucks. However, from what I read on the guide I posted above, I see that dude bought a cable with a specific model number. Do you guys have any recommendation for VGA monitor cables? or can I just buy any of them as long as they're the ones with both male and female connector that I could cut in half (from the pictures, I see what you mean) ? I'm a little concerned whether the one I'm gonna buy would have enough wires inside for me to connect.
Actually he's using a DB15 cable, and not an HD15 (i.e. a monitor cable) like I thought. However, DB15 and HD15 cables should have the same number of wires (um... 15 :lol: ), so I think any VGA monitor cable should work fine.

You could buy a DB15 cable if you want (it's safe to say that DB15 cables all have the same number of wires). He probably posted the model of the cable he bought since people asked him for it for one reason or another (e.g. they didn't know where to buy it, or the one he's using looks cool with the metal connectors). Or like I mentioned, get some Molex connectors (or AMP, like I did) and some wire and build your own cable. There are a lot of options.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by MentholMoose » 22 Jun 2009, 13:32

Also in case you missed it, there's some info I posted from my friend Mitch who did the mod like this. The post is here:
DC TS external mod info
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Dreamcazman » 22 Jun 2009, 13:48

MentholMoose wrote:Realistically it is not comfortable to use a controller with a huge monitor cable extending from it, so I think the main purpose of the "external" mod is to be able to use the modified control pad with multiple controllers. For example, you can use the same modded Xbox 360 controller with Twin Sticks and a Street Fighter type arcade stick. Also, you can modify additional controllers, and use the modified Twin Sticks with multiple systems. My arcade Twin Sticks currently can be easily changed between DC, Xbox 360, and Naomi, and I could modify a PS2 controller if I wanted to use them for OMG on PS2.
Yeah, forgot about that. ;)
MentholMoose wrote:The best option is a MadCatz, or a Gamestop-rebranded MadCatz. The newer official controllers are actually common ground, but they still have small solder points, while I think all MadCatz controllers are common ground and have large solder points. For the solder points, check the "PCB Diagrams" section on this slagcoin.com page.
Be careful though, the newer M$ pads aren't really common ground, they're common signal which is something different entirely. The wireless pads however are common ground, so if you want to go wireless, it's all good. I used one in one of my sticks, in case anyone's interested.

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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by MentholMoose » 22 Jun 2009, 14:55

Dreamcazman wrote:
MentholMoose wrote:The best option is a MadCatz, or a Gamestop-rebranded MadCatz. The newer official controllers are actually common ground, but they still have small solder points, while I think all MadCatz controllers are common ground and have large solder points. For the solder points, check the "PCB Diagrams" section on this slagcoin.com page.
Be careful though, the newer M$ pads aren't really common ground, they're common signal which is something different entirely.
That's strange, I haven't heard of such a thing. Is the wiring done differently that common ground? In the guide linked by Elternteil, the wiring doesn't look too crazy.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Elternteil » 22 Jun 2009, 17:25

Another question:

Do I really need a multimeter?
I saw a bunch of em in Home Depot and they cost about $50-$60.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Testament/Seven7 » 22 Jun 2009, 19:31

Elternteil wrote:Another question:

Do I really need a multimeter?
I saw a bunch of em in Home Depot and they cost about $50-$60.
I built mine without one, your mileage may vary.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Elternteil » 22 Jun 2009, 20:03

Hmmmmm....

If I'm to do an in internal modding, how can I modify the slot for the head set?
What I'm thinking is removing the PCB on the top side of the case (the one that connects the stick to the Saturn - looking at the guide, the modder cut the wires connecting to it, rendering it useless as an appendix) and replace it with the MadCatz controller PCB. However, the slot for the headset should be on the south side of the case, so i may have to drill a hole there. My problem is that the wire that connects the headset slot to the PCB isn't long enough unless I actually locate the PCB on the south side.

(forgive me if I'm ever using some terms wrong - this is the first time I'm using joystick modding jargons ever XD)
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Dreamcazman » 22 Jun 2009, 23:26

Elternteil wrote:Hmmmmm....

If I'm to do an in internal modding, how can I modify the slot for the head set?
What I'm thinking is removing the PCB on the top side of the case (the one that connects the stick to the Saturn - looking at the guide, the modder cut the wires connecting to it, rendering it useless as an appendix) and replace it with the MadCatz controller PCB. However, the slot for the headset should be on the south side of the case, so i may have to drill a hole there. My problem is that the wire that connects the headset slot to the PCB isn't long enough unless I actually locate the PCB on the south side.

(forgive me if I'm ever using some terms wrong - this is the first time I'm using joystick modding jargons ever XD)
I've never bothered to accommodate the headset port, probably because I have a wireless headset and two because I don't even use that very often. :lol:

You could use an extension and use a 2.5mm (I think) socket somewhere on the case and run it back to the socket on the PCB.

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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Elternteil » 26 Jun 2009, 16:27

Okay!

I just got the Madcatz controller today and opened it up immediately.
From the looks of the PCB, it seems I got the new model (despite being white and labeled MadCatz as opposed to GameStop in the picture below).

Image

Took me a while to figure out how to remove the trigger buttons (I realized it was, you know, screwed on XD). There are these strange white liquid inside them that freak me out at first for obvious reasons.

The fatest black wire from the USB cable was disconnected from the PCB by accident during the disassembling process. Doesn't look like anything soldering can't fix so I'm not worried.

Plus the way the headset port is connected to the PCB looks complicated that I don't think I'm gonna bother to touch it bother to touch it.

Also, from the diagram, I see red, blue, and a yellow circle- how do I handle those?
according to http://slagcoin.com/joystick/pcb_wiring ... D_CIRCUITS
There needs to be an entry point and an exit point, yet for majority of the buttons in the diagram, I see them only using one color. In fact, I only see UP and Y using 2 circles. Plus there's a red circle on the back that has no label.

And what the hell is 5V and LC?

Hmmmm.... and I notice there's no info on the analog sticks as well.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by MentholMoose » 26 Jun 2009, 19:14

Before continuing with this mod, you should read through the slagcoin guide to gain an understanding of controller modding. Another guide, which I linked in my Mod Guide, that covers the necessary electronics basics in depth is here:
How to Piggyback an Xbox360 controller on a Universal PCB
Elternteil wrote:There are these strange white liquid inside them that freak me out at first for obvious reasons.
It's grease, so the triggers don't wear out from friction.
Elternteil wrote:The fatest black wire from the USB cable was disconnected from the PCB by accident during the disassembling process. Doesn't look like anything soldering can't fix so I'm not worried.
Yes, it will need to be reconnected.
Elternteil wrote:Also, from the diagram, I see red, blue, and a yellow circle- how do I handle those?
The diagram explains that blue is signal and red is ground. The one yellow is a 5 volt power line, which you don't need unless you want to add something that needs power.
Elternteil wrote:There needs to be an entry point and an exit point, yet for majority of the buttons in the diagram, I see them only using one color. In fact, I only see UP and Y using 2 circles.
This controller uses a common ground. In other words, ground for all inputs is the same. So, red is ground, and it is the "exit point" for everything. Adding red circles to every input is redundant since you only will add a couple of wires for ground.
Elternteil wrote:Plus there's a red circle on the back that has no label.
It's a ground point.
Elternteil wrote:And what the hell is 5V and LC?
"5V" is a 5 volt power line, which you won't need. LC is the "left click" button. The "right click" button is not labeled, so you will have to identify it yourself if you want to use it. Using the click buttons is not exactly necessary, but if you don't use them you will have to use the analog trigger buttons (which is harder).
Elternteil wrote:Hmmmm.... and I notice there's no info on the analog sticks as well.
They are rarely used for controller mods, because modding them is difficult and usually unnecessary for games warranting a controller mod. It is not necessary to mod them for VOOT.
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