Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Discuss VO-related projects (Twin Sticks, etc.)
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Elternteil
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Elternteil »

MentholMoose wrote:
Elternteil wrote:Hmmmm.... and I notice there's no info on the analog sticks as well.
They are rarely used for controller mods, because modding them is difficult and usually unnecessary for games warranting a controller mod. It is not necessary to mod them for VOOT.
So you're saying that the left stick would be connected to the Directional Buttons, while the right stick would be connected to A B X Y buttons as opposed to connecting them to the analog sticks?

I've decided to do an external mod by the way (beginners gotta start somewhere I thought, plus I think the MadCatz gamepad is superior to my first party gamepad), and am using a DB15 VGA connector like in the Japanese guide - cutting them in half and connecting each half to the stick and the gamepad. My concern with this is that I can't see which of the tiny wires is connected to which pin on the connector. Instincts tell me that I will just use the color of the wires and hook them up with the proper wires on the twin stick (e.g. if the red wire is soldered on the left shoulder button on the Mad Catz gamepad, I will assume that I will tape the copper of the other end of the red wire to the copper of the wire that connects to the left turbo of the Twin Stick).

My Twin Sticks haven't arrived yet, so there's still time to stop me from creating a disaster XD
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by MentholMoose »

Elternteil wrote:So you're saying that the left stick would be connected to the Directional Buttons, while the right stick would be connected to A B X Y buttons as opposed to connecting them to the analog sticks?
Yes. See my threads for all of this info and pics:
Dreamcast Twin Sticks - Mod Guide
Modded Dreamcast Twin Sticks for Xbox 360 - complete!!!
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Elternteil »

Progress:

I started the soldering process this afternoon (FINALLY).
Looks like I need to buy gloves and goggles before I continue.
Soldering makes my hand sweat and shake from the heat! XD
Plus I realized the soldering iron makes the solder wire boil and make small splashes that go all over the places that my hand suffered from tiny burns, and I fear for my eyes!

Again, this is my first time doing something like this.
I encountered a lot of problems already too.

First of all, I bought the wrong wire stripper as it couldn't strip the tiny wires from the VGA cable that I had to manually cut the insulation and pray to god I'm not cutting the copper inside.

Also, soldering wasn't really hard. The solder dries in just a second, and thankfully i didn't suffer any grave injuries from the boiling solders XD

What was really hard, to the point that I RAGED, was putting the controller back together after the wires were soldered to the PCB. I thought that I could just stuff in the wire and forget about it, but I forgot about the buttons! The wires must not block the buttons! This made reassembling quite a hell for me.

After managing to put the controller back together, the problems became worse. The A button wasn't working (UH OH). The X, Y,A, and B button don't push all the way (UH OH UH OH). Something seems to be blocking the back and start button (AAAAAAAAAARGH), and the RT wasn't working at all (GWAAAAAAH).

Obviously, I'm going to have to reopen the darn thing (the 4th time).
I think I know the problem with the RT though - when I was soldering the wire to the soldering point indicated in the guide, I accidentally merged that soldering point to the one beside it - meaning I violated that +- rule and the electrons aren't going anywhere (right? lol!). Problem is, I don't have a desolderer.

So, my next goal would be to go out and buy gloves goggles, and a desolderer (whatever that may look like).
If I'm missing anything, let me know.

Thanks ;)
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by MentholMoose »

Congrats on making some progress. However, as mentioned in the guides I linked, if you joined two pads, you absolutely should not have connected it to your Xbox 360! Consider yourself lucky that it wasn't damaged or destroyed.

To "unjoin" the two pads, I think the easiest and cheapest option is desoldering braid (search google for how to use it).
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by graefocs »

What are you doing that is causing boiling and splashing? I've never come across that before. Are you using too much solder? There are a lot of great tutorials on the web teaching you how to solder. Same with desoldering -- this is a little tricker than soldering.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by graefocs »

also, there are 2 main ways to desolder....

1) Heat the solder, and then use a pump to suction the melted solder away. This comes in many different varieties. You can get desoldering irons with built-in rubber bulb pumps from Radio Shack. Unfortunately, the tips on these are pretty huge and might be too big for the relatively tight electronics inside a controller. They also separate hand bulb pumps that you can get from Radio Shack that do the same thing. It's separate from your iron -- costs about 3 bucks i think. You can get even fancier and use one of those long pen-type desoldering pumps. You pump a spring to load it... heat the solder joint, and press the button on the pump to release the spring and suck air in.

2) The other option is to use a desoldering braid as MM mentioned. The braid is basically a metal wick with flux it in. You heat the wick, press it on the solder joint, then heat the joint againt through the pre-heated braid. The solder melts, and sucks the solder into the braid through capillary action. You can get these from Radio Shack, but a really well known fancy brand is called Soder-Wick (that's the correct spelling.)

Generally, use a suction technique for larger messes, and a wicking technique for smaller messes. But you could presumably use a wick for large messes too. You'll just need a lot of thick wick. For the insides of a controller, you'll need pretty small wick.

Also, sometimes there is not enough solder on a joint for you to be able to effectively reach with a wick or pump. In that case, you melt it as best you can but add more fresh solder to it. Now you have a larger mass that is easy to get hold of (I think via surface tension?) and the pump or wick will be able to soak it right up.

Hope this helps. Lemme know if you need advice on soldering too. I can point you to some tutorials I've used.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Elternteil »

I watched a few tutorials on about soldering on Youtube.

What I do is cover the tip of the wire with solder. Then I put a bit of solder on the soldering iron.
I heat up the soldering pad or surface I want to stick the wire on, then solder them together.

Whenever I stick the tip of the soldering iron to the soldering wire, the soldering wire bubbles up and makes tiny splashes.
It gives out black smoke too (which I believe was supposed to prevent oxidation, correct?) - should I wear a mask?

Oh and by the way, how do you clean the soldering iron?
I wipe it with napkins but it couldn't clean it completely (I'm wiping it when it's hot).
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by MentholMoose »

What kind of solder are you using, and what is the diameter? It sounds like you might have solder meant for larger applications (electrical work, etc.), which is thick and has a ton of flux in it (which causes the boiling/bubbling and smoke). Also what wattage is your soldering iron (or are you using a soldering gun)? If it's really high then it would cause more of the symptoms you describe. I usually use a 15w iron for electronic work, which is more than enough.
Elternteil wrote:should I wear a mask?
It's toxic, so work in a very well ventilated area. A mask might help, too.
Elternteil wrote:Oh and by the way, how do you clean the soldering iron?
Try a slightly damp sponge.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Nusakan »

Not sure what video you watched but a damp sponge is something you should always have. They do sell tip cleaners too. With those all you need to do with those is just heat up the iron and jab it into the cleaner, then clean off the stuff with the damp sponge. This does create smoke as well so don't do this in closed areas.

In terms of soldering, what I was taught at Intel was to apply a bit of solder on the tip, then heat up the point you want to solder, then finally "feed" the solder to that point.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by graefocs »

For this type of electronics, you should go with a 60/40 rosin core solder. I use the 0.32" diameter stuff from Radio Shack and it works great. It is thin enough to get inside any cramped controller circuit board.

My technique is to stick the soldering iron tip directly into the joint touching both the solder pad on the circuit board and the wire. Then as soon as possible, I touch the tip of solder where all 3 of those things meet (now 4 things including the solder). You'll find that the solder just flows into the hot joint and makes a perfect hershey kiss-like formation.

I've tried other techniques but this works best for me. Other techniques have created weird shapes like floating balls of solder on the wire, and other undesirable effects. Also, try not to keep the solder iron on the circuit board or pins of the components for too long. You want to be in there only as long as necessary to heat the joints and solder enough for them to work together. Spending too much time can fry your components, especially LEDs.
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Re: Looks like making a custom twin stick is the way to go.

Post by Testament/Seven7 »

MentholMoose wrote: It's toxic, so work in a very well ventilated area. A mask might help, too.
You want to work in a well ventilated area, but i think the worst you'll ever get is a headache with most/all modern solder formule.
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