Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

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DarkraiZero
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Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by DarkraiZero » 13 Aug 2013, 17:44

I have been planning on purchasing a set of twin-sticks but I don't want to spend 300$ on a HORI twin stick since I am trying to save up for a new computer for animation work. I found a set of the OMG twin sticks for the Sega Saturn for a reasonable price though! However, Does anyone know of a Saturn to Xbox 360 controller adapter from a reliable source? Also, to anyone that has/had the Saturn Twin-Sticks, do they last for a long time or will they break down within a short period of time? Thank you!
OMG: Apharmd, Temjin, Bal-Bas-Bow
VOOT: Temjin, Bal-Bados
VO4: Specineff 13 The Sin

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Re: Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by MentholMoose » 13 Aug 2013, 22:50

I haven't heard of any such adapter. Saturn or Dreamcast Twin Sticks can last a while as long as they are properly maintained. This means making sure they are always well lubricated, and occasionally washing off the old grease. I use and recommend lithium grease for lubrication and electronics-safe degreaser for cleaning.
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Re: Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by DarkraiZero » 23 Sep 2013, 09:15

Thanks for the info! :D
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Re: Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by twistedsymphony » 27 Sep 2013, 21:31

I'm rebuilding the sticks on my arcade machine right now using Molykote #44 Medium grease. Lithium is fine but this stuff is arguably the best you can buy.

As for an adapter... I built a Sega Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter a while ago... http://solid-orange.com/hacks/saturn-to ... er-adapter

From what I understand the data output from the twin sticks is similar to the regular game pad, although I've never had one at my disposal to test... The easiest method would be to rip out the original PCB and wire up all the switches to the PCB from a wired controller.

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Re: Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by MentholMoose » 28 Sep 2013, 16:49

twistedsymphony wrote:I'm rebuilding the sticks on my arcade machine right now using Molykote #44 Medium grease. Lithium is fine but this stuff is arguably the best you can buy.
Good to know. I'll buy some to use the next time I clean my arcade Twin Sticks.
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Re: Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by Billkwando » 30 Sep 2019, 09:55

MentholMoose wrote:
13 Aug 2013, 22:50
I haven't heard of any such adapter. Saturn or Dreamcast Twin Sticks can last a while as long as they are properly maintained. This means making sure they are always well lubricated, and occasionally washing off the old grease. I use and recommend lithium grease for lubrication and electronics-safe degreaser for cleaning.
Hi there, sorry to bump an ancient thread! I haven't posted in a while, but I was googling how to lubricate a Saturn twin stick and came across this old thread, and wanted to ask you exactly how you do it and what contact points you do. I've got a big tube of lithium grease. I'll make it into a YouTube video so it's useful to others, too.

I got A Certain Magical VO before the copies all dried up (haven't tried it yet) and I think I've worked out a mod free way to use a Saturn twin stick on PS4/X360/X1 (adapterama, lol) and I wanted to make sure my twin was in tip top shape before I start slapping it around (lol). Unfortunately, my Madcats/Quickshot twin that I built died (it lights up but isn't seen as a controller) and I haven't felt like digging through the spaghetti to figure out why.

If I get the Saturn twin running (and I will) I'll come back and make a post about it. I JUST found out VOOM was on 360. Wish I could buy it, but it would have to be in a way that would let me play it on X1 if/when it ever becomes BC, so a throwaway account won't do. I also have VO Force and hope they'll make that BC too. I still have my 360 but of course you can't capture videos on that like you can with an X1.

Anyway, I hope all's well with you!!

Bill

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Re: Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by MentholMoose » 02 Oct 2019, 02:29

It is pretty straightforward. Look for any plastic that rubs against other plastic and lube both. On the DC TS the weakest link is the spring catch (it's yellow or green, depending on the TS revision, and hard to miss). I would imagine it is similar for the SS TS. The grease can be applied liberally without issue.

As for the lubricant, lithium grease is cheap and works well in my experience. It was recommended to me by an arcade operator. In recent years I switched to Molykote 44 Medium. It costs significantly more but I think it lasts longer.
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Re: Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by Billkwando » 02 Oct 2019, 11:15

MentholMoose wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 02:29
It is pretty straightforward. Look for any plastic that rubs against other plastic and lube both. On the DC TS the weakest link is the spring catch (it's yellow or green, depending on the TS revision, and hard to miss). I would imagine it is similar for the SS TS. The grease can be applied liberally without issue.

As for the lubricant, lithium grease is cheap and works well in my experience. It was recommended to me by an arcade operator. In recent years I switched to Molykote 44 Medium. It costs significantly more but I think it lasts longer.
Do I need to disassemble the grips (I'd rather not, lol, but if you feel they should be lubed I will totally do it), or is the spring catch part of the stick assembly below, like where the square gates are? (below the switches, near the actuators? or is it the Start button?)

Also, is it true that you can't play ACMVO with a twin stick configuration? (setting aside the fact that they technically don't exist yet) I've been reading the old threads here. If that's the case, I wish I had known, because I never would have bought it.

BTW I already got the TS working on my PC, during lunch. When I finish work today, I will complete the configuration and will be playing VOOT and VO Force in no time! I'm using a Sega Saturn to PC adapter, which makes the PC see the TS as a dinput controller, and I have a CronusMax Plus adapter which can capture the inputs from a PC controller (the twin stick), via the X-Aim Plugin, and sends them to the console, so that's the trick!


Edit: An added benefit to using X-AIM is that since the twin stick doesn't have all the buttons that a modern controller has, you can use the regular controller you used to authenticate on the console to do things like pause and hit the guide button. You just have to go into Options on X-Aim and uncheck "Ignore CM Controller Input" from the drop down.

Basically the flow is:
  • The CM+ (which is a USB dongle) connects to the X1/360/PS3/PS4

    The authentication controller/pad is plugged into the USB port on other end of the CM+ (with a micro USB cable for X1/PS4). Xbox 360 REQUIRES a wired controller, because the Play & Charge carries no data (luckily I have a cheap Gamestop one, bought to play PSO2 on PC). This is to pass the check that you're using an official controller

    Twin stick plugs into the computer (via the Saturn box...which is plug & play btw....no drivers)

    A mini USB cable connects to the Prog port on the side of the CM+, and the other end goes to the PC (I use my old Rock Band hub). This is how the controller communicates with the console.


Edit 2: It works!

OK, I'm pretty sure I haven't played this game in 10 years (my achievements are all from '09), and maaaaaaaaan am I rusty. I can't even remember how to do Temjin's surfboard move. Boo! I assume I should relearn how to play this one before I try VO: Force?

Well.....I guess I solved the Saturn to Xbox 360 conundrum! (and Xbox 1, and PS3, and PS4) As long as you don't mind spending $100 to do it! ($20 for the Saturn adapter and $80 for the CM+) Fortunately I actually saved money, back when I got my CronusMax, because it allowed me to use my $250 PS3 Hori flight stick on Ace Combat 7 on X1, instead of having to buy an identical $250 X1 Hori flight stick.


A couple notes:
  • I'm using the Mayflash 2 player Saturn to PC box, because that's the one I heard someone confirm works with the TS. If you have a Dreamcast twin, I believe an EMS Trio Linker Plus II would let you do the same.
    This particular model has an xinput dinput switch. I only vaguely understand what that is for, but I know X-Aim uses diput
    They all seem to have a particular quirk of having both a POV direction and a button mapped to the d-pad (which is the right stick on the TS) To prevent any potential mapping issues, I used an x360 controller to map the D-pad in my X-Aim profile (to the XYAB buttons for Type B Control, because it's the right hand stick), and then just unplugged it and put the TS back in to map the rest.
    The TS Start is mapped to the X360 Back button, because that's what it was already mapped to in my options from my old Quickshot twin stick I built back then.
    The TS 2 turbos are the L3/R3 "stick click" buttons, and weapons are the LB/RB buttons
    I use 2 USB extension cords (one from the computer, one from the Xbox) so I can keep the CM+ nice and safe on the coffee table. I never took the twist tie off the Saturn box USB cable, because it conveniently plugs right into the PC extension cord on the table. This also means it's only a couple feet away, so I have plenty of TS cord to reach the couch.



Now I'm ready for the compilation that's coming on PS4! :D
Last edited by Billkwando on 02 Oct 2019, 23:25, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by MentholMoose » 02 Oct 2019, 20:26

Billkwando wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 11:15
Do I need to disassemble the grips (I'd rather not, lol, but if you feel they should be lubed I will totally do it), or is the spring catch part of the stick assembly below, like where the square gates are? (below the switches, near the actuators? or is it the Start button?)
The spring catch is in the base. See this thread for pics: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

The grips are easy to disassemble and reassemble. I periodically disassemble everything, clean all the parts, and re-lubricate everything. I do add a small amount of lube to the various buttons to be safe.
Billkwando wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 11:15
Also, is it true that you can't play ACMVO with a twin stick configuration? (setting aside the fact that they technically don't exist yet) I've been reading the old threads here.
I'm not familiar with it at all, but there is a company building Twin Sticks for it, so it might work.
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Re: Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by Billkwando » 02 Oct 2019, 20:28

MentholMoose wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 20:26
Billkwando wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 11:15
Do I need to disassemble the grips (I'd rather not, lol, but if you feel they should be lubed I will totally do it), or is the spring catch part of the stick assembly below, like where the square gates are? (below the switches, near the actuators? or is it the Start button?)
The spring catch is in the base. See this thread for pics: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

The grips are easy to disassemble and reassemble. I periodically disassemble everything, clean all the parts, and re-lubricate everything. I do add a small amount of lube to the various buttons to be safe.
Billkwando wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 11:15
Also, is it true that you can't play ACMVO with a twin stick configuration? (setting aside the fact that they technically don't exist yet) I've been reading the old threads here.
I'm not familiar with it at all, but there is a company building Twin Sticks for it, so it might work.
Thanks!

I just made a MASSIVE edit to my previous post, explaining how to get Saturn/Dreamcast twin sticks working on anything but Switch. ;)

I'm glad I didn't hack mine up and try do any kind of conversion on it. I was tempted to many times before I built my Quickshot twin.

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Re: Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by Billkwando » 02 Oct 2019, 22:53

MentholMoose wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 20:26
Billkwando wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 11:15
Do I need to disassemble the grips (I'd rather not, lol, but if you feel they should be lubed I will totally do it), or is the spring catch part of the stick assembly below, like where the square gates are? (below the switches, near the actuators? or is it the Start button?)
The spring catch is in the base. See this thread for pics: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

The grips are easy to disassemble and reassemble. I periodically disassemble everything, clean all the parts, and re-lubricate everything. I do add a small amount of lube to the various buttons to be safe.
What's the order of disassembly? Do I take the grips apart while the base of the stick is still together? I'm guessing that in order to lube the spring catch, I need to remove the e-clips (c-clips?) and the actuator, and then pull the shaft out? The wires for the turbos and triggers will be attached of course.

I guess I'm just having a hard time envisioning it, and since I'm going to be recording the whole thing for youtube, I want to make sure I'm doing it the right way the first time. Sorry to be a pain. :)

I'll also mention that superlube you use. LOL

Edit: Oh yes! After few rounds of VOOT on X1, it all started to come back to me, thankfully. I didn't want to play too long considering I'm sure it's pretty dry in there, since I never thought to maintain it before.

I also remapped my controller in VOOT back to the default, to match VO Force's scheme (which I also played briefly on 360!) rather than try to figure out the Japanese in the menu to copy my VOOT config in Force. Then, I just switched my mapping in X-Aim to match the new layout, and overwrote my old controller mapping profile. That way, if I'm ever asked to share it, they won't need to remap anything. Come to think of it, I'll upload it and put a link in the description of the video I will almost certainly be making, to explain how to do the thing with the Saturn (or Dreamcast) adapter & CM+.

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Re: Saturn to Xbox 360 adapter (Saturn Twin Stick on Xbox)?

Post by MentholMoose » 03 Oct 2019, 00:41

Billkwando wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 22:53
What's the order of disassembly? Do I take the grips apart while the base of the stick is still together? I'm guessing that in order to lube the spring catch, I need to remove the e-clips (c-clips?) and the actuator, and then pull the shaft out?
You don't need to disassemble anything to apply lube, only to clean thoroughly. You might want to disassemble one stick off camera first to get the hang of it. I haven't disassembled the SS TS in many years so I don't remember the exact order. For the DC and arcade TS the order is not really important.
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