Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Discuss VO-related projects (Twin Sticks, etc.)
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motormann
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Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by motormann »

First I want to introduce myself to you all. I'm a long time fan of VO, and just today came across this message board. I definitely am not a highly skilled VR pilot, due mostly to never having a chance to play against quality human opponents. Still I love the game, and have owned pretty much every version, including the japanese version of VO:OT for DC. In fact, I may be one of the few people who owns the actual arcade VO:OT, which I bought off ebay several years ago.

Anyway, what I mainly wanted to bring up is that with the 360 version coming soon, I see a lot of posts about twin sticks. I think the odds are against a peripheral being made by a big time controller manufacturer. When I got my arcade machine, the sticks were totally shot. I have the unique advantage of being in the business of manufacturing heavy-duty gaming controllers (small business). I completely custom built my own sticks for my arcade cabinet, with handles available through a company called HAPP controls. I've been toying with the idea of building up a set for the 360, and it got me wondering if there's a market for them. I know how niche VO is as a game, so it's not really a question of selling hundreds or thousands, I'm talking small limited run, probably through ebay.

I see modded DC controls are going for about $250 according to some links. I haven't got to the point of figuring a price just yet, but I would think I could build and sell them at around that price point. The advantage over DC sticks is that rarity isn't a problem, and a lot of people who have DC sticks would hesitate over modding their own. Also, these sticks are way better built, I would say unbreakable. Compared to my DC sticks, the travel on my current sticks is a bit less, with sensitivity of the switches being slightly higher (these are things I can tweak within the construction of the sticks). By sensitivity I mean the amount the stick moves before it engages the switch. The centering method is by springs, it has a bit of a different feel than the DC or original arcade, but I think it's really nice.

I can pull one of the sticks out of my cabinet to get some pictures if you guys are interested in seeing how they're built.
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by Testament/Seven7 »

I, personally, whould have more interest in the sticks themselves as opposed to a pre-built unit.

I must be a massichoist or something :P That and a $100 price tag is too much for me, DIY is always cheaper, and in my personal opinion and experiance, better.

Having said that, if you'd be willing to sell the sticks themselfes......

Oh, right, welcome, and pics plz...of the sticks i mean...
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by MentholMoose »

Some pics would help pique my interest. Your description sounds interesting, though, but are there any options to help keep the cost down? For example, could you manufacture custom shafts that use the Happ handles but are compatible with an off the shelf arcade stick (e.g. from Seimitsu, etc.)? It wouldn't be bulletproof, but it might be a good solution for some people.

Also, what version is your VOOT machine?
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Long Shadow
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by Long Shadow »

Interesting. Personally, I'm more interested in an adapter for DC and Saturn sticks on 360. In theory, this would be cheaper, and I wouldn't need a third pair of Twin-Sticks cluttering up my place.
Also, if supported, I could use my regular Saturn pads and Saturn/DC joysticks (with all six buttons working on the DC stick) on the 360 as well. I'd love it if this is what Sega are teasing about the twin-sticks, but I'm not counting on it.

And I have NO intention of modding my current sticks.
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by VR-Eli »

I'm rather lazy and afraid to do anything to my twinsticks, so I'd be interested. Though something around a $150 price range would be more preferable. I don't know if I would plunk down $250.
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motormann
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by motormann »

Here's a picture of my arcade machine when I first got it set up. It's actually apart now, I'm replacing the power supplies which have both failed with new ATX supplies. One is finished and working great, the other I still need to wire up. My game is version 5.4g.
ARCADE.JPG
(20.42 KiB) Downloaded 44 times
I've been working on significant modification of my original stick design to address some concern I had about the centering feel. I like the soft feel of the original design, but the more I read about the demands of the controls at high levels of play, the more important I felt it was for a very solid centering feel. I've attached some pictures here which show both designs. The first two pictures below are of the new design. It uses a four point plunger spring mechanism. I can vary the strength of these springs both by position from the center (I have 3 mounting points), adjustment within the plungers, and I have 2 different strength plungers I can use. This design gives you a solid feel when the stick is centered. It also has one nice feature that I think might be advantageous over the original arcade and DC/Saturn stick design. Using the 4 point plungers, When moving diagonally, there is an ever so slight difference in the tension required to move the stick in relation to straight up,down,left,right. This difference allows you to feel the diagonals, for increased accuracy. The difference is slight, and it causes no detriment in the straight directions. The cause of this is that the design requires compression of 2 springs when it's moved straight, but only one when moved diagonal.
1024twinstick 001.jpg
1024twinstick 004.jpg
The last picture is of the original design. It's considerably different, and one other major change is the pivot point. My old design has the pivot at the bottom of the mechanism, which has noticeably more arm movement. In my re-design I decided to reverse this, so the switches are on the bottom and the pivot is right at the base, where it really should be.
1024twinstick 007.jpg
Last edited by motormann on 05 Apr 2009, 21:44, edited 1 time in total.
Testament/Seven7
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by Testament/Seven7 »

Woah, dude, ok, that looks pretty darn solid. I mean wow.

So, uh, how much whould a pair of these cost?
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Henshin01
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by Henshin01 »

Where abouts are you from anyway?
I'm from australia so it probably wouldnt be affordable to buy overseas.
motormann
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by motormann »

I'm in the US, so yes, shipping can be very expensive to Australia. Like I said, cost is not determined yet, but I think $200 would be a minimum. The cost for the 2 handles alone is right at $70 from Happ. You have the cost of a 360 controller for the PCB, plus an enclosure of some kind. I looked at some decent looking plastic ones (metal enclosures are way out of reach), I might be able to get a plastic one for around $20 or so that the sticks will fit in. You've got a minimum of 4 base mounted buttons. 8 microswitches, 8 spring plungers, all the steel parts, plus labor. It definitely adds up. On the plus side, I think these are probably the best twin sticks anyone has made/used. I'm anxious to get my 2nd stick modified and play with it (should be done with it tonight). I used the first one last night, and the difference between the new and old one was readily apparent. I always have trouble with my original design getting consistent diagonals, not so with the new one. I can also tell that the improved sensitivity and reduced arm movement are pretty big improvements.

To really gauge the potential for selling these, I would like to get a highly skilled player to try them out. Not sure yet though if I want to put the expense and time into building a full set for the 360. I will put some play time on this arcade set before making up my mind.

Here's a couple more pics:
1024twinstick 002.jpg
1024twinstick 003.jpg
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somepunk
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by somepunk »

consider me seriously interested.

I'd like to see an assembled product though. Or are you only interested in selling the sticks individually now?

I'm in the US, do you have any pictures of your the real model yet?
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Testament/Seven7
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by Testament/Seven7 »

i'm personally interested in the individual sticks. I like doing the hard stuff myself ^^
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motormann
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by motormann »

I think at this stage I would be more interested in building just the sticks if someone legitimately wants a set. I have a finished pair installed in my arcade cabinet and they work excellent. I decided that I've got the springs too strong though and I want to pull them back out to adjust them. Let me do some figuring and I'll get back with you on a price per stick.
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by Testament/Seven7 »

motormann wrote:I think at this stage I would be more interested in building just the sticks if someone legitimately wants a set. I have a finished pair installed in my arcade cabinet and they work excellent. I decided that I've got the springs too strong though and I want to pull them back out to adjust them. Let me do some figuring and I'll get back with you on a price per stick.
Awsome, can't wait.

I kinda have to though so ^^;;;;
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graefocs
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by graefocs »

Wow. These look sturdy. I would be very interested as well. I only hesitate because it's hard to tell whether I would like the feel without trying them first -- we all know how vastly different varying makes of arcade sticks can be.

How self-configurable would you say the tension, snap, and click will be once shipped? If you make that stuff easy to mod, I think a lot of us would be more willing to make the plunge.

And yessssss... once I get my hands on a set of twin sticks, I will become a VOOT pro. lol

Actually, I have a pair of barely used DC sticks and they didn't help me much. I'm just a gearhead and need more plastic in the living room getting in the way of my girl and dog.
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by Graalof1ce »

I'd be interested in this, depending on the price of course.

What system would these be made for? Saturn, DC, or Xbox360? I myself would prefer a Saturn port so I can use the total control 3 to use them on DC as well.
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Re: Any interest in bulletproof Twin Sticks?

Post by Testament/Seven7 »

you know, there hasn't been a reply in some time...

Is this still even gonna happen? I wonder...
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