Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Discuss VO-related projects (Twin Sticks, etc.)
Jumbo
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Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Jumbo » 08 May 2009, 15:55

I figure this is the best place to be posting it. By now, I'm sure everyone has either experienced first hand, or heard about how fragile the DC twinsticks were. The problem seemed to lie in a little plastic washer with a hollow tube attached that sat underneath the hub of the stick. When this broke, the response for the stick would fail, leaving you with a stick that wouldn't return to neutral on its own.

I remember long ago Mitch was talking about using sewing bobbins to replace this part. Does anyone have any other advice or input on getting said parts? I've got two pair of sticks that could use them. (My one good pair is cracked.) With no word from Sega about new sticks, modding would be my only hope but if the sticks are broken from the get-go, what's the point...

Any suggestions?

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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by MentholMoose » 08 May 2009, 16:20

I think the the sticks in the DC Twin Sticks are based on the Seimitsu LS-56-01 joystick. I plan to buy a pair of these in the near future to see if the parts are interchangeable, unless someone can confirm that it won't work.

I think it is not recommended to use a modified bobbin by itself, since there will be metal and plastic rubbing together, instead of plastic on plastic. So, a bobbin plus a plastic washer might be fine. I'll get in touch with Mitch and get more details.
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Testament/Seven7 » 08 May 2009, 18:04

why wouldn't using a plastic bobbin work?
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Heiligekuh » 08 May 2009, 19:40

Certainly the base of the DC twin Sticks looks a lot like the LS-56 in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVNbMXzVn3U

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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by MentholMoose » 08 May 2009, 21:13

Testament/Seven7 wrote:why wouldn't using a plastic bobbin work?
It could work if it is strong and durable enough.
Heiligekuh wrote:Certainly the base of the DC twin Sticks looks a lot like the LS-56 in this video.
The DC Twin Stick stick PCB is actually labeled "LS-56-01". The PCB in the DC Twin Sticks is different than a standard LS-56-01, though... it appears to have been strengthened.
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by rvr67michael » 09 May 2009, 12:46

Is it not possible to just get replacement sticks entirely? If you're going as far as buying complete joystick assemblies in the hopes that the DC flight sticks will fit, it seems like you may as well go a step further and get one that already has a 2-button flight stick included. I've tried looking and never found any myself, but the idea of building from individual arcade parts is more appealing to me than messing with my DC sticks (even though they're in the same shape as Mark's, or I guess, BECAUSE they are in the same shape as Mark's, modding mine won't do any good either)

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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Dreamcazman » 09 May 2009, 13:45

rvr67michael wrote:Is it not possible to just get replacement sticks entirely? If you're going as far as buying complete joystick assemblies in the hopes that the DC flight sticks will fit, it seems like you may as well go a step further and get one that already has a 2-button flight stick included. I've tried looking and never found any myself, but the idea of building from individual arcade parts is more appealing to me than messing with my DC sticks (even though they're in the same shape as Mark's) :roll:
If it were that easy to buy replacement sticks, don't you think we all would've just bought them and built our own sticks from scratch instead of modifying existing sticks? :roll:

I would love to know if you can get twin stick 'sticks' but AFAIK they aren't available.

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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Testament/Seven7 » 09 May 2009, 19:30

There are other SEGA games that use the "stick" model, though not in a twinstick configuration. So I imagine that there's some part or lot number that could be looked up, if not for "virtual On", then why not for, say..., planet harriers, for example.

Seriously, if I could get a pair of grips with the button assemblies, i'd be golden. I jacked up a switch i was trying to fix, so my own project is at abit of a standstill...
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Jumbo
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Jumbo » 09 May 2009, 21:07

MentholMoose wrote:I think the the sticks in the DC Twin Sticks are based on the Seimitsu LS-56-01 joystick. I plan to buy a pair of these in the near future to see if the parts are interchangeable, unless someone can confirm that it won't work.

I think it is not recommended to use a modified bobbin by itself, since there will be metal and plastic rubbing together, instead of plastic on plastic. So, a bobbin plus a plastic washer might be fine. I'll get in touch with Mitch and get more details.
Seimitsu LS-56-01 joystick parts list: (click here for link and scroll to the very bottom for the LS-56-01)

1. MS Base
2. Kadai (Frame)
3. Main Guide
4. Microswitch
5. Shaft
6. Spacer
7. Spring
8. Stem Catch/receiver
9. Spring Catch/receiver
10. Lever Packing
11. Lever Ball
12. Screws (one set)
13. Kiban (Subframe)
14. Harness
15. VF base

I wish the parts picture was clearer or could be zoomed in on but alas, that's it.

The thing is I don't see any part that resembles that little yellow (yellow for me anyways) washer/hat in that list, unless parts 8 and 9 are supposed to combine to form that part or if one or the other is actually "it". (Again hard to tell from the small pic.)

While the stick does have the LS-56-01 (k) on it, I have to wonder if it's just for the actual harness (part 14 in the list) or if they used Seimitsu parts for the whole nine yards, including the washer/shaft twinstick part. If it was only this easy for one of these parts to be an actual "replacement"...

Michael, any other thoughts on translation for parts 8 or 9?

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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by MentholMoose » 09 May 2009, 22:05

I'm pretty sure the actual VOOT sticks are long discontinued. The used ones are getting crazy expensive, too... an arcade parts dealer just sold four complete VER.5.2 versus city panels on Yahoo! Japan Auctions for about $300 each!!!!
Testament/Seven7 wrote:There are other SEGA games that use the "stick" model, though not in a twinstick configuration. So I imagine that there's some part or lot number that could be looked up, if not for "virtual On", then why not for, say..., planet harriers, for example.
PH doesn't use the same stick, it uses an analog stick. Here is the PH manual for reference:
http://www.segaarcade.com/pdfs/planetha ... manual.pdf

If anyone has an actual VOOT (or Force) arcade cabinet manual (and not OMG), let me know. I'd really like some of the model numbers, since the VOOT arcade sticks have no model numbers anywhere.
Jumbo wrote:I wish the parts picture was clearer or could be zoomed in on but alas, that's it.
Here are some better pics (from slagcoin):
http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/attrib ... s56_xp.jpg
http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/attrib ... ls56_b.jpg

Here is a pic from the Seimitsu 2007 catalog:
ls-56-01_2007.jpg
LS-56-01 picture from 2007 manual
Jumbo wrote:While the stick does have the LS-56-01 (k) on it, I have to wonder if it's just for the actual harness (part 14 in the list) or if they used Seimitsu parts for the whole nine yards, including the washer/shaft twinstick part. If it was only this easy for one of these parts to be an actual "replacement"...
The harness in the VOOT sticks is not the same as the LS-56-01 (different connector, but still JST manufactured), and the LS-56-01 PCB is different.

The restrictor plate ("main guide", part 3) appears to be identical, and the black "frame" (part 2) on the DC Twin Sticks looks the same and is stamped "SEIMITU".
Jumbo wrote:The thing is I don't see any part that resembles that little yellow (yellow for me anyways) washer/hat in that list, unless parts 8 and 9 are supposed to combine to form that part or if one or the other is actually "it".
The "spring catch" (part 9) is what we need. It is a different color in the pic. There were actually two different versions of spring catches in the DC Twin Sticks, the weak yellow one and a green one from the second version, so there are probably a variety of colors out there. The "stem catch" (part 8) sits in the top of the frame (opposite of the spring catch)... it looks like a half sphere with a hole in the middle for the stick shaft.

Can someone contact Seimitsu to see if they can sell just the spring catch?
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Dreamcazman » 10 May 2009, 02:26

MentholMoose wrote:Can someone contact Seimitsu to see if they can sell just the spring catch?
I'm pretty certain Akihabarashop sell individual parts for Seimitsu sticks (I know they do for Sanwa) but I can't see at the moment as the shop is shut while they try and fill back orders (damn SF IV :lol:)

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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Testament/Seven7 » 10 May 2009, 09:52

PH doesn't use the same stick, it uses an analog stick.
by same stick, I meant the grip assembly, which is all I, for one, really need...actually I need a pair of them idealy...
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by MentholMoose » 10 May 2009, 16:10

The PH handle is different, too. One complete assembly actually sold on eBay a couple weeks ago:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SEGA-PLANET-HARRIER ... dZViewItem
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Testament/Seven7 » 10 May 2009, 17:02

MentholMoose wrote:The PH handle is different, too. One complete assembly actually sold on eBay a couple weeks ago:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SEGA-PLANET-HARRIER ... dZViewItem
I sware it looks and feels similar enough...

I actually saw a PH machine recently, and could sware the grip atleast was identical...

Maybe I can keep ebaying for this instead for the grips atleast?

better still....if anyone has any arcade part reproduction companies near them that would not mind parting with a complete grip assembly for a while....

something ala: http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/inde ... x&cPath=91
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by MentholMoose » 10 May 2009, 20:07

It looks pretty similar on the outside, but check out the manual and you can see it is quite different. If you doing a fully custom controller, then you can probably make it work.
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Jumbo
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Jumbo » 10 May 2009, 22:05

MentholMoose wrote:If anyone has an actual VOOT (or Force) arcade cabinet manual (and not OMG), let me know. I'd really like some of the model numbers, since the VOOT arcade sticks have no model numbers anywhere.
You mean one of these?


Image
Yeah, it's English. 1st Printing - MR. Manual No. 420-6371-01

I think the page of importance would be page 87.

I know the techs at GW tried contacting SEGA USA about these parts but never had any luck. SEGA of Japan though...?

So it is the "spring catch." And yes, I remember talk about the two twin stick spring catch colors. (Alas both of mine were yellow...)
MentholMoose wrote:Can someone contact Seimitsu to see if they can sell just the spring catch?
I can send an e-mail to a contact in Japan about purchasing just that one part from Seimitsu. If possible, I will report back here. Hopefully it will only take a couple days to get a reply back. I'll update when I get one here.

EDIT: If you simply go back to the Seimitsu Main Page the column on the left has various individual parts and panels for sale. I don't see the spring catch or any separate "joystick" parts though unfortunately...
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by MentholMoose » 10 May 2009, 22:33

Thanks for the manual pic! I'll see if I can track down the parts, or confirm if they're discontinued.
Jumbo wrote:I can send an e-mail to a contact in Japan about purchasing just that one part from Seimitsu. If possible, I will report back here. Hopefully it will only take a couple days to get a reply back. I'll update when I get one here.

EDIT: If you simply go back to the Seimitsu Main Page the column on the left has various individual parts and panels for sale. I don't see the spring catch or any separate "joystick" parts though unfortunately...
It's still worth checking to see if they can sell the individual parts, or if some dealer can.
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Jumbo
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Jumbo » 10 May 2009, 22:41

MentholMoose wrote:It's still worth checking to see if they can sell the individual parts, or if some dealer can.
I've fired off an e-mail, hopefully I'll know about purchasing the individual part soon. I also asked about purchasing this one part in bulk. :lol: If it ~is~ the part that will work after proper testing, I can then hopefully place a big order and ship parts out to anyone that might need spares/replacements, etc. Cross your fingers.

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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Testament/Seven7 » 11 May 2009, 10:07

Does the manual have part numbers for the grips/buttons/pcb etc?
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Re: Dreamcast Twin Stick Repair

Post by Jumbo » 11 May 2009, 19:28

Testament/Seven7 wrote:Does the manual have part numbers for the grips/buttons/pcb etc?
It's got a part number for every piece of the Oratan cabinet.

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