"ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

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Davo87
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by Davo87 »

Nothing against Cypher, but I laughed when he lost to drill rush in the end. This stage actually looks better for dordray than expected. The low obstacles dont always shield projectiles, it doesnt stop V hurricane for starters, which penalizes machi players. Well played by the Dordray player, the explosive fireballs and nicely placed drills made short work of cypher. Nothing makes it more annoying for Cypher when his CW gets deflected by Dordray's v armor in midrange.
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by MentholMoose »

Davo87 wrote:Nothing against Cypher, but I laughed when he lost to drill rush in the end. This stage actually looks better for dordray than expected. The low obstacles dont always shield projectiles, it doesnt stop V hurricane for starters, which penalizes machi players. Well played by the Dordray player, the explosive fireballs and nicely placed drills made short work of cypher. Nothing makes it more annoying for Cypher when his CW gets deflected by Dordray's v armor in midrange.
There are some things to keep in mind while watching. From the reports I heard, there was significant lag to contend with while playing network versus, which makes sense considering it was over a dial-up network. Some players either barely played network versus, or didn't at all, considering that 1) it wasn't free, and 2) they could likely just go to an arcade for a better experience. Plus, this particular network versus tournament took place barely a month after the game was released. So, the players were probably not used to the network versus mode.

This is also why I hesitate to even capture these replays, since they aren't the best example of high-level gameplay. However, I am capping them anyway since they are at least decent, and they might provide some indication of how the game will be played in VER.5.66 online. So, pay attention to how the different VRs are played, and if there seems to be any limitations due to lag.

Also, I updated the first post with another video! :)
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by MentholMoose »

The first post has been updated with the OOB1 "B ROOM" videos. Also, my current workflow is below. Let me know if you have any suggestions.

1. Set up replays in nullDC - I use the Chankast VMS data editor to import the save data to the nullDC VMS image file.
2. Capture raw video - I play the replay in nullDC, and use the full version of Fraps to capture the video with audio. This PC has Windows XP SP2, Core2 Duo E6600, 2GB DDR2 RAM, and 8800GT video card.
3. Create intermediary video files for editing - I create an Avisynth script to import the raw video into VirtualDubMod, and encode from the Fraps codec to the lossless Lagarith video codec (audio left untouched). This reduces the filesize without losing quality.
4. Edit - I create a project in Adobe Premiere Pro CS3. I create and arrange titles, do various other editing, and do a quick quality check.
5. Create intermediary video files for encoding - From Premiere, I export the audio and video separately, again using Lagarith, and do another quick quality check.
6. Encode - I create another Avisynth script and import video into meGUI. I set up and run the encode (x264 for video, AAC for audio). When done I use the included muxing tool to create the final video, and do a quick quality check. :) I currently have a couple of Windows computers to do this step, sadly it isn't working properly on my Linux workstation (has a quad-core Xeon CPU).
7. Create web page - I create a web page for the video (basically just copy and edit one of the existing ones) and upload the video, and do a final quality check.
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by MentholMoose »

Man, it's a slow day, where is everyone? :lol:

Anyway, the first post has been updated with the "C ROOM" videos!! "D ROOM" and maybe the final should be done tomorrow.
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circuscommando
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by circuscommando »

the lag was noticeable, but it was mostly when the people such as grys-vok would spam with their missiles. In any case, they're decent, all are better then me without lag >.< but the raiden players have very different styles from me.
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by Schooly D »

circuscommando wrote:the lag was noticeable, but it was mostly when the people such as grys-vok would spam with their missiles.
I think that's a different kind of "lag" where the framerate just slows down for both players. It's caused by the Dreamcast itself. What Menthol's referring to is latency, where there's a noticeable delay between you inputting an action and that action happening in the game.
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by MentholMoose »

evenpar123 wrote:
circuscommando wrote:the lag was noticeable, but it was mostly when the people such as grys-vok would spam with their missiles.
I think that's a different kind of "lag" where the framerate just slows down for both players. It's caused by the Dreamcast itself. What Menthol's referring to is latency, where there's a noticeable delay between you inputting an action and that action happening in the game.
Yeah, I'm concerned about lag due to network latency, rather than slowdown. Although VER.5.45 network versus worked over dial-up, it was actually on a dedicated network (IIRC called "DWANGO"), and coupled with the small geography of Japan, the latency probably wasn't too bad. So, I'm curious how VER.5.66 over broadband in the US will compare (and if it will be feasible to compete against Japanese players).

From watching the replays, I'm thinking lag affected the Raiden players a lot, since they appear to be ineffective. Out of all these replays, I don't think a Raiden connected with lasers once! The lasers are heavily timing dependent, so I can imagine that lag was the culprit. Also, one of the Raiden players did x-lasers a couple of times for some reason, possibly somehow due to lag. How the Raiden players got into the finals of two rooms (about 14 players per room) is anyone's guess.

It will be interesting to watch replays from the later tournaments, and see how the styles progress. OOB2 and 3 have way more players (2 is especially huge, with 16 rooms, 3 has about eight)... man that's a lot of videos to make. :shock:
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by Testament/Seven7 »

Latency depends on location and connection speed, obviously. Over a dial up network this would have been troublesome to say the least, but doable, (case and point, phantasy star online's network mode via dial up, non dedicated system). Over broadband, network speeds, even to japan, don't get compromised too badly. Case and point, Phantasy star universe, xbox 360. I've not played it, but parties regularly form between american, european, and japanese players, and any lag that does occur, i'm told, is purely graphical, considering the number of enemies, and a max party size of 6, it's all rather smooth. (sega and sonic team ftw ^^)

Having said that, 1v1 play should pose very little-no problem over a broadband style connection. Having said that, i'd be a little concerned for DSL or other "phone line based broadband" users, as lag can get a bit dicy for them, from personal experience anyway.
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by Schooly D »

200ms of latency would matter much more in a VOOT match than in a PSO/PSU game, I'm afraid.
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by MentholMoose »

evenpar123 wrote:200ms of latency would matter much more in a VOOT match than in a PSO/PSU game, I'm afraid.
I think so, too. For a typical FPS, even 100fps would be unusable for competitive play. From downtown LA to Tokyo (probably the best case scenario), the ping time is around 120ms, so I wonder if overseas play will be feasible in VOOT.
Testament/Seven7 wrote:Having said that, 1v1 play should pose very little-no problem over a broadband style connection. Having said that, i'd be a little concerned for DSL or other "phone line based broadband" users, as lag can get a bit dicy for them, from personal experience anyway.
It depends more on the location and service provider than the type of last mile connection. At my house a cable Internet connection is unusable for competitive gaming, since latency to any given server varies wildly, especially at peak hours, whereas the DSL I have is rock solid during all hours. That said, a FiOS rollout to my neighborhood is tentatively planned for summer, so I will be switching immediately. ;)
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by Testament/Seven7 »

Really? Because I have cable based broadband, and I can game most fps games just fine....Halo tends to give me problems on games hosted on other clients instead of dedicated servers, but I suspect this to be the fault of the host's isp.

I suspect it won't be that much of a problem on xbla's dedicated server/matchmaking system. I'm far from being an expert on these things, but I imagine it shouldn't be too much of a problem, unless your opponent is connecting via dial-up, in which case.....free target ^^
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

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Yup it depends on the location and service provider. I used to live in another city, and cable was great (DSL was also excellent). It was with Charter, well priced, very fast and stable, with good tech support (I rarely had to call anyway).

At my current place, Time Warner (previously Adelphia, which collapsed after its management stole 100+ million from the company and fudged their accounting numbers by a few billion) has a monopoly for broadband Internet access for much of the city, and it's always been just terrible. I lived in another part of this city for several years, outside of DSL range, so I had no choice but to use cable and suffer constant problems. For example, one time my connection went out, so I called and (after a 45 minute hold time, which was typical) found that I'd be down due to maintenance for a week! Thanks for some notification!! Once the week long maintenance was over, and a few more calls for them to get them to actually turn my connection up, there was no noticeable improvement.

For years, ping times to Socal servers (where I live) would frequently hover around 150ms (all my local friends with a good ISP would ping 5-20ms :lol: ). I frequently checked traceroutes and would submit bad ones to tech support. Once I was being routed to Chicago for everything, regardless of whether the destination was in Chicago, Dallas, or Los Angeles), but the customer support couldn't do anything. The high level tech I was escalated to said their routing naming conventions are not standard, so "lax033.myisp.net" could be in Florida, "dfw808.myisp.net" in Alaska, and "chi339.myisp.net" in California. Never mind that the ping times matched up (e.g. about 60ms increase on the hop between LAX and CHI). I think they were not trained to do any troubleshooting, just to get one person off the phone and to the next person in the queue.

Another time there was a problem where latency would spike to 1000ms every few minutes, and last for a minute or so, mainly during peak hours. This would cause me to "lag out" of any game I wanted to play (be it online solitaire or an FPS). Even after escalating the issue to "high level" reps, they couldn't figure anything out, and kept scheduling techs to visit (basically to get me off the phone and prevent me from calling again for a few days). The techs would check the coax connectors, measure some signal levels, and leave within a few minutes since there was nothing wrong. After a month, and dozens of phone calls (with 45+ minutes of hold time each, mind you), I got ahold of one knowledgeable high level tech, who found a configuration error on their side and fixed it.

Eventually I moved and was free. One condition I placed on the locations for house hunting was it had to be near enough to the phone companies CO that I could get DSL. From what I've heard, the cable company are losing tons of customers everywhere FiOS is deployed, and it's no surprise.

</rant> :lol:
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by Testament/Seven7 »

Time warner? As in the cable company?

That means you had Road Runner service? Because thats what I have now, and where I am, i've not experienced such issues, well, none to my knowledge. That or my router is good at fixing them, who knows ^^;;;
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Re: "ORATAN ONLINE BATTLE" Official DC VOOT Tournaments - Videos

Post by MentholMoose »

Yup, RR. That's the thing, since the infrastructure in each city is completely separate from every other city, and each company has a dedicated office in every city, the performance varies. So it can be fine in one city, and horrible in the next.

Anyway, any comments on these tournament videos? :D
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