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Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 03 Feb 2016, 14:23
by Schooly D
Adding to Porcupine's thread here:

The Winter Classic was a smashing success, but as always there's room for improvement.


The area with the biggest room for improvement, I think, is around broadcasting. We had three streams, but suffered from some problems:
- too many streams dilutes viewership
- the streams were of people playing in the tournament, meaning we'd have to see all of their games (even if there were better matches going on)
- the streams were dry and lacking commentary or context -- they basically just amounted to a series of gameplay clips

If I could wave a magic wand and fix things, I'd do something like this:
- designate one person, who isn't competing, as the streamer and head commentator
- setup a Skype (or other voice) lobby for commentary
- ask other participants to be on hand to join the Skype lobby for extra commentary (when they're not playing matches)
- park the streamer inside a separate "featured matches" xbox live lobby. When there's a match we think would be interesting, the players are invited into the lobby to have their match broadcasted/commentated, then leave when it's over

I think that'd go a long way toward producing a watchable, enjoyable experience.


The schedule of tournaments is also something to consider. We had a great success with the winter classic, but that might be because it's our only large online tournament in years. The odds are good that if we have too many tournaments too frequently, attendance would decline since each one would be less meaningful/special.

Here's something I think we could do: have a "big" tournament twice a year (i.e. every six months). Between then, have something smaller for the more dedicated crowd.

Porcupine has offered a "team battle" tournament which I think could be a good idea. Additionally, I think we could do well with an "invitational" style tournament where we choose the top 6-8 players (maybe using the results of the big, open tournaments) and invite them to compete, where we'd do a few round-robin cycles, then finish off with a single elimination bracket.

So the yearly schedule would look like:
January: Winter Classic (open)
April: Spring Invitational (invitation only)
July: Summer Slam (open)
October: Fall Invitational (invitation only)

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 03 Feb 2016, 18:00
by Zaarock
I agree with all your ideas here, good stuff. And great work on winter classic.

I still think all matches should be recorded at some treshold (like top 8) regardless if a person thinks they're boring. For example PPX vs Porcupine on winter classic was not broadcasted by anyone.

Sometimes you can barely see what the other player is doing so matches should be recorded from both players sides if they can. It's very hard to tell what a bal-bados player is doing from another players view, but this applies for pretty much anyone at high level. That would mean more than one person recording. I'd be totally okay with recording instead of streaming if you want the viewers on one channel. I suppose you could have the streamer doing whatever and then two guys recording DNA and RNA sides taking up 3 slots in a party. If that's not an option then just make sure someone saves replays of every match and shares them later. Could just be a player in the same party.

I like the idea of two big tournaments w/ two invitationals inbetween. & agree that winter classic was probably large because of the long break. Also looks like the jp players were more interested in watching the tourney than anyone. Having a japanese broadcaster or restream might not be a bad idea. (though they already did this independently for Vector Strike)

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 03 Feb 2016, 19:53
by Porcupine
Schedule sounds fine. Nothing to add about broadcasting since I'm not into that scene. I have no idea who or how many people watch. I can't watch Twitch because it doesn't play well in Hawaii. Other video services sort of work okay here.

Commentating sounds interesting. Neoken told me that Schooly is a good commentator. Most sports use 2 commentators with one guy for play-by-play and one guy who has more knowledge. Since they might not be able to play, we should probably experiment with this on the invitationals. VOTwinstick and VarryoChoco would be my first choices. If aniking is not playing, he could be one.

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 04 Feb 2016, 21:17
by Palmpoa

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 05 Feb 2016, 22:35
by Sixfortyfive
How would you do commentary for this. Just have the guys spectating in the lobby also do commentary?

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 08 Feb 2016, 04:44
by SoulGuitarist
I like this alot.

However, I think we should do something like GODSGARDEN and have tournaments for all 3 games. I think that would be pretty exciting. The only flaw I see in that is the lack of people who want to play Force. :v

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 08 Feb 2016, 11:51
by VarryoSchwert
I prefer to have a connection test between the 2 players before the bout starts so that they can prepare for it even though the tournament process will be a bit slow.
Just like other fighting game tournament that they have buttons test.

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 09 Feb 2016, 05:12
by SoulGuitarist
A button check for a netplay tournament is... unheard of. Lol

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 09 Feb 2016, 05:28
by VarryoSchwert
I'm talking about connection check.

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 09 Feb 2016, 05:35
by SoulGuitarist
Yeah but... almost no netplay tournaments do connection checks either. I mean I definitely see where you're coming from but it would take too much time especially since the players would have to quit online using the Xbox home since there is no pause function to bring up the menu to quit. (From what I remember)

You kinda just let it rock. If you can't connect, you can't connect and the players try to settle it within a period of time.

I guess if you're worried about it, you could double check and see with your opponent to see if they would be okay with the test.

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 09 Feb 2016, 05:51
by VarryoSchwert
We can use Raiden to kill yourself quickly.
Some of the VRs' special moves are depended on input timing.
As least players will know if their VR are suitable with the connection.
It is extremely unfair to take advantage by using bad connection to defeat someone in the tournament.
Both of the players did not get a proper treatment.
The victors do not get the proper victory and the defeaters do not get the proper defeated.

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 09 Feb 2016, 09:39
by Porcupine
The main limitation is, even if you do test and find out the lag is unstable, what are you going to do about it? Option one, you determine who is the "cause" of the lag (by having the players test connection against others) and they have to forfeit. Option two, you fight anyway.

I think most players would not change their VR even if they know there is lag. So there is no point to test the connection. But since you believe you should change VR, I'm sure you can request your opponent to test connection before a match with you.

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 09 Feb 2016, 14:53
by VarryoSchwert
Well, put the connection test request in the tournament rules.

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 10 Feb 2016, 07:25
by SoulGuitarist
As Porcupine said, even if you DO the connection test and it doesn't work out, how do you plan to fix it??? They can forfeit (You talk about fair but forcing a forfeit would be kinda lame) or play it out like normal netplay so... I really don't see the purpose in establishing it as an actual tournament rule. As you said, it's a "request".

Request your opponent to do the test if you're so worried about it.

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 10 Feb 2016, 08:33
by VarryoSchwert
Therefore it is better add create the rules than nothing.

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 10 Feb 2016, 09:40
by VOTwinstick
An idea to expand Team Battle thing, how bout have our friends in Japan do the same? Winning team West fight against winning team East? West vs. East VOOT Folly!
Get Katenasousos (?) & Seabasshunter be captains and pick their teams. Do all over 3 weekends. Play, watch & play again... if you're one the West's winner team members. Maybe too short notice but sounds fun in my head.

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 10 Feb 2016, 18:43
by Porcupine
I did think about that, though I doubt any Western team is going to be a challenge for their top players. I am indeed hoping to start a trend with our first Team Battle, if it's successful. It could be a new "game" for Japanese players to watch and copy. That's why I made that picture flyer, which also invites Japanese players to enter our Tower Challenge in March. We haven't showed it to them yet though, if you want to be the first to show them that's fine.

In April we will hopefully be having Schooly's invitational tournament, then we'll evaluate things and go from there.

My Team Battle rules format doesn't necessarily limit things to two teams. It's sort of like a mock war between nations. There can be multiple nations all fighting at once.

Re: Tournament ideas going forward

Posted: 12 Feb 2016, 09:07
by VOTwinstick
My shallow thoughts:
Only advertise the main broadcast for viewing. Others, stream their broadcasts with local record for better encoding compression. But those others, not advertise broadcasts. Just as our far East friends have done in the past. Sharing screen graphics when multi stream broadcast of same sponsored event is no brainer.
Upload / transfer broadcast files to someone to edit / post YouTube or other for single source viewing page of all or major matches. File transfer service I've used with a Japanese counter part is:

Two commenters (play by play & color) or more would have to be in the same lobby at all times or physical room watching the same screen to have comment match play timing accuracy. Watching internet stream & commenting may experience voice delayed to on screen action. I'm flattered to get mention for this but my vocab is limited mostly to 4 letter words! I'd hate to steal the show (goofy grin).

If I could wave my magic wand: commentary duo would be➡ MentholMoose & SchoolyD! Vectorstrike yap they've done is really good stuff!