Having trouble with the bosses

Discuss VO4, the latest in the series.
Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX
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Having trouble with the bosses

Postby Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX » 13 Mar 2011, 18:31

Hey everyone, I have been lurking for awhile now and have just joined up because I am having some troubles I need help with. Me and my brother are both long time VOOT/ VOOM fans. While we have had some limited success against Jagurandi and Ajim, it seems that we are unable to beat these two bosses consistently when we play together. We have much better luck with AI partners. It feels like when we play together our attacks don't do as much damage to the bosses as when we play with AI (no Ex options on).

Is this a feature? A bug? Is it in our heads?

It also seems like these bosses would be unbeatable with certain VR's and that indicates that we are probably doing something wrong. If you guys could post some strategies for Ajim and Jag, it would be much appreciated. Or even some youtube video. I know we have to practice to improve, I just want to make sure that what we are practicing is actually going to be helpful, and right now we are at a bit of a loss.

BTW, thank you for all the helpful guides and posts already, this game would have FAR less playable without them.

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shamanic_beat
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Re: Having trouble with the bosses

Postby shamanic_beat » 14 Mar 2011, 22:18

I have no idea on how to beat them other than cheating and blind luck.
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Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX
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Re: Having trouble with the bosses

Postby Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX » 14 Mar 2011, 22:40

With conditions optimized (good AI partner, Decent VR, little luck) I have been able to beat them a few times on normal and I have beat them on Arcade mission 1. However I seem completely unable to do it with a human partner (and it isn't like my AI is carrying me). They seem tougher. Now I can't say I practice lots because I don't find it enjoyable (yet) but for the amount I have tried I feel like I should be better.

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Zaarock
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Re: Having trouble with the bosses

Postby Zaarock » 15 Mar 2011, 02:31

You can melee jaguarandi to death pretty quick, no idea about strategies for ajim & guerlain though

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guarayakha
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Re: Having trouble with the bosses

Postby guarayakha » 15 Mar 2011, 03:20

Ajim/Guerlain:

Key trick is your evasion skills, and try not to have both of them locked onto you.

Colored polygons (pink/blue)- Sidedash, jumpcancel, repeat until they stop coming, then throw in a cheap RW shot or 2, then prepare for...
Orbs (Monochrome/Spark)- Same as above, and they only launch 4 of these, then anticipate the...
Giant polygons (Red/Purple)- These pack quite a punch, so just focus on evasion (sidedashing is best).

Try to get in at least 2-3 CC hit the moment they stop attacking. When they teleports to the center, only use your more damaging shots when they start spinning. I usually just RW away while they spin and put in a turbo shot before the lasers starts coming, then proceed to do walking shots.

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neo helbeast
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Re: Having trouble with the bosses

Postby neo helbeast » 15 Mar 2011, 11:23

One more thing; Ajim and whatsherface don't have invcibilty frames. So a jumping RW can do a ton of damage while they are prepping lasers.
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Jecht Striker
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Re: Having trouble with the bosses

Postby Jecht Striker » 15 Mar 2011, 15:35

There are some cases where a victory against Ajim and Guerlain is just plain impossible, or at least seemingly so

If you fight them while playing VOX Tetsuo, it's simply not possible to dodge their attacks. It simply doesn't have the mobility to stay alive

At one point I tried to beat arcade mode playing as Apharmd J Type-X with a fully-trained Apharmd T Type-X AI partner. The J Type-X doesn't have any moves that can deck out significant damage, and the T Type-X is too slow to stay alive. A similar deal happened when I tried using an Apharmd J Type-M paired with an Apharmd J Type-C AI partner; they have no far-range weapons powerful enough to deal significant damage, and melee is suicide

Simply put, most of the melee-oriented or slow units in FORCE have a significant disadvantage against Ajim and Guerlain. This does not apply to EVERY VR, but most of them.

Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX
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Re: Having trouble with the bosses

Postby Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX » 15 Mar 2011, 19:04

We'll I am glad to hear it isn't just me.

It seems like poor design that you can't win with certain VR's.

Even 10/80 in VOOT could still beat the game.

I sure there is someone that has some good strats though.


BTW guarayakha, what is meant by CC? (surely not close combat against ajim)

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guarayakha
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Re: Having trouble with the bosses

Postby guarayakha » 15 Mar 2011, 20:44

Jecht Striker wrote:There are some cases where a victory against Ajim and Guerlain is just plain impossible, or at least seemingly so

If you fight them while playing VOX Tetsuo, it's simply not possible to dodge their attacks. It simply doesn't have the mobility to stay alive

At one point I tried to beat arcade mode playing as Apharmd J Type-X with a fully-trained Apharmd T Type-X AI partner. The J Type-X doesn't have any moves that can deck out significant damage, and the T Type-X is too slow to stay alive. A similar deal happened when I tried using an Apharmd J Type-M paired with an Apharmd J Type-C AI partner; they have no far-range weapons powerful enough to deal significant damage, and melee is suicide

Simply put, most of the melee-oriented or slow units in FORCE have a significant disadvantage against Ajim and Guerlain. This does not apply to EVERY VR, but most of them.


Yes, CC means close combat. You see, the moment you enter CC range and starts attacking, they stop firing at you (unless you're unlucky enough to have 2 of them locked onto you)

You don't even need to dodge much as Vox Tetsuo. At the start of the round, dash forward(Tetsuo actually has quite a good fwd dash speed) and turn to whoever you're initially locked onto, and get close, do some CC. The firing will cease, and when they're prepping up for the lasers, unleash all of your Turbos (hold them down for continuous Turbo missiles until you run dry). I defeated them in about 10 seconds, multiple times since I was trying to get all the colors.

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Temujin
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Re: Having trouble with the bosses

Postby Temujin » 21 Mar 2011, 05:15

Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX wrote:Hey everyone, I have been lurking for awhile now and have just joined up because I am having some troubles I need help with. Me and my brother are both long time VOOT/ VOOM fans. While we have had some limited success against Jagurandi and Ajim, it seems that we are unable to beat these two bosses consistently when we play together. We have much better luck with AI partners. It feels like when we play together our attacks don't do as much damage to the bosses as when we play with AI (no Ex options on).

Is this a feature? A bug? Is it in our heads?

It also seems like these bosses would be unbeatable with certain VR's and that indicates that we are probably doing something wrong. If you guys could post some strategies for Ajim and Jag, it would be much appreciated. Or even some youtube video. I know we have to practice to improve, I just want to make sure that what we are practicing is actually going to be helpful, and right now we are at a bit of a loss.

BTW, thank you for all the helpful guides and posts already, this game would have FAR less playable without them.



I noticed that too, when playing in split screen, it seems that tou deal less damage to Ajim e Guerlain compared when playing with AI.

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Porcupine
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Re: Having trouble with the bosses

Postby Porcupine » 13 Jul 2015, 13:14

Jaguarandi's AI is smarter in Arcade mode or Arcade Operation missions, than in First and Second Operation. It makes a difference. His life also lessens each time you lose to him in Arcade mode.

Ajim and Guerlain's HP adjusts depending on your VR. For some VRs, you must use your most damaging attack on them to win, for example Raiden 512D. His single-beam turbo spiral laser hits them four times for obscene damage, so they have increased HP. Jaguarandi's HP also adjusts depending on opponent VR (not necessarily the same as Ajim and Guerlain).

Since your team has two VRs, the boss HP will be the average. In some very rare cases, a bad combination of VRs could result in a team that can't beat Ajim and Guerlain. It's not difficult to kill Jaguarandi, but it is difficult to kill him in under 45 seconds for an SS rank. I find this to be impossible with two Temjins, but easy with two Fei-Yen BH, using mostly identical moves and tactics. Their damage is similar, but Jaguarandi has 50% more life against Temjin.

If you shoot Ajim and Guerlain right when they are forming their crystal and becoming vulnerable, while the crystal is flickering, half the damage will go to Ajim and half to Guerlain, one frame later. With sharp eyes you can see the split, though the damage is the same in the end. But attacks that surpass the damage cap such as the twin turbo laser of Raiden 512E have the opportunity to do increased damage (for some unexplained reason it hits a third time as well, resulting in roughly 2.3 times normal damage).


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