VR health values in VOOM
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VR health values in VOOM
I'm guessing some Japanese players did this by now, but I couldn't find any information so I'm going to try doing it myself. VOOM lifebars seem similar to VOOT and Force, but since VOOM does not display damage percentages it's difficult to determine move damages, much less VR health values, which are only in the same units as damage percentages for some VRs.
Therefore, determining the raw health values through experimentation might have been impossible during VOOM's original lifetime. However, VOOT and Force have given us a larger sample set of data to play and guess with. So now I think it can be done. I noticed that any of VOOM Temjin's CWs seem to do 2% of damage to another Temjin. This would be consistent with Temjin having exactly 1000 HP and all his CW attacks (standing CW, crouching CW, jumping CW, forward dash CW, side dash CW, and back dash CW) doing 20 damage each. Temjin typically has around 1000 HP in VOOT and Force (with slight variation for VOOT's matchup table, or VR sub-models in Force). Furthermore, in Force the majority of beam cutter attacks (for many VRs, including both LWs and CWs) do exactly 20 damage at long range (they usually increase to 40 damage at closer ranges in Force, but in VOOM very few attacks have damage that changes with distance).
Refining my experimentation further, it appears that VOOM has the same phenomena that VOOT does, of a 10% global increase in damage that grows over time (Force does not have this). Therefore in order to do good tests, it's best to wait about a minute for the increase to occur and max out. Note this means that all Temjin's CW attacks will therefore do 22 damage according to my hypotheses.
It takes 46 Temjin CW attacks to kill another Temjin. Studying the health bar pixels more precisely shows that 45.5 Temjin CW would do the job. Therefore my test results match perfectly, because 45.5 x 22 = 1001 HP.
Moving on to other VRs, killing Grys-Vok is identical so he also has 1000 HP. It takes 64 Temjin CW attacks to kill Raiden, and the remaining health bar pixels are of exactly equal length prior to the final blow as when killing Temjin, so I'm certain Raiden has exactly 1400 HP. It takes 28 Temjin CW attacks to kill Bal-Bas-Bow, and the remaining health bar pixels are of exactly equal length prior to the final blow as when killing Temjin, so I'm certain Bal-Bas-Bow has exactly 600 HP. It takes 60 Temjin CW attacks to kill Dorkas, but actually it is more like 59 attacks plus just one pixel of health to finish him off, so Dorkas has exactly 1300 HP.
Apharmd is a terrific example because it takes exactly 50 shots to kill him. He has exactly 1100 HP. Furthermore, in VOOM when the lifebar drops below half health it starts to flash. The test against Apharmd shows that at exactly 50.0% health, the bar is not flashing yet. This could be helpful to narrow down the exact HP of some VRs with unusual values. It takes 24 Temjin CW attacks to kill Viper II. He has a significant amount of life remaining prior to the final blow but it is noticeably less than a full CW attack's worth of damage on him. From this I estimate Viper II has 520 HP. It takes 38 Temjin CW attacks to kill Fei-Yen. It appears that 37.5 attacks would not be enough, which puts her actual HP above 825 and below 836 HP. There's only one nice number within this range so Fei-Yen probably has 830 HP.
Therefore, determining the raw health values through experimentation might have been impossible during VOOM's original lifetime. However, VOOT and Force have given us a larger sample set of data to play and guess with. So now I think it can be done. I noticed that any of VOOM Temjin's CWs seem to do 2% of damage to another Temjin. This would be consistent with Temjin having exactly 1000 HP and all his CW attacks (standing CW, crouching CW, jumping CW, forward dash CW, side dash CW, and back dash CW) doing 20 damage each. Temjin typically has around 1000 HP in VOOT and Force (with slight variation for VOOT's matchup table, or VR sub-models in Force). Furthermore, in Force the majority of beam cutter attacks (for many VRs, including both LWs and CWs) do exactly 20 damage at long range (they usually increase to 40 damage at closer ranges in Force, but in VOOM very few attacks have damage that changes with distance).
Refining my experimentation further, it appears that VOOM has the same phenomena that VOOT does, of a 10% global increase in damage that grows over time (Force does not have this). Therefore in order to do good tests, it's best to wait about a minute for the increase to occur and max out. Note this means that all Temjin's CW attacks will therefore do 22 damage according to my hypotheses.
It takes 46 Temjin CW attacks to kill another Temjin. Studying the health bar pixels more precisely shows that 45.5 Temjin CW would do the job. Therefore my test results match perfectly, because 45.5 x 22 = 1001 HP.
Moving on to other VRs, killing Grys-Vok is identical so he also has 1000 HP. It takes 64 Temjin CW attacks to kill Raiden, and the remaining health bar pixels are of exactly equal length prior to the final blow as when killing Temjin, so I'm certain Raiden has exactly 1400 HP. It takes 28 Temjin CW attacks to kill Bal-Bas-Bow, and the remaining health bar pixels are of exactly equal length prior to the final blow as when killing Temjin, so I'm certain Bal-Bas-Bow has exactly 600 HP. It takes 60 Temjin CW attacks to kill Dorkas, but actually it is more like 59 attacks plus just one pixel of health to finish him off, so Dorkas has exactly 1300 HP.
Apharmd is a terrific example because it takes exactly 50 shots to kill him. He has exactly 1100 HP. Furthermore, in VOOM when the lifebar drops below half health it starts to flash. The test against Apharmd shows that at exactly 50.0% health, the bar is not flashing yet. This could be helpful to narrow down the exact HP of some VRs with unusual values. It takes 24 Temjin CW attacks to kill Viper II. He has a significant amount of life remaining prior to the final blow but it is noticeably less than a full CW attack's worth of damage on him. From this I estimate Viper II has 520 HP. It takes 38 Temjin CW attacks to kill Fei-Yen. It appears that 37.5 attacks would not be enough, which puts her actual HP above 825 and below 836 HP. There's only one nice number within this range so Fei-Yen probably has 830 HP.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
That completes the health of all VRs, however there might be a health matchup table like in VOOT. In fact there is, as I just discovered. Let's move on from attacking with Temjin, to attacking with his VOOM semi-clone Apharmd. Any of Apharmd's CWs similarly do 2% damage to another Apharmd. His standing and crouching CWs fire two shots for double the damage, but also use exactly double the energy. After the time bonus each projectile of Apharmd CW does 22 damage. It takes the same 45.5 shots to kill another Apharmd, so in this matchup Apharmd has exactly 1000 HP.
Meanwhile it takes 44 Apharmd CW attacks to kill Temjin. More precisely, it takes 43 attacks plus two pixels of health to finish him off. It's fairly clear that Temjin has exactly 950 HP in this matchup. Note that this finally proves the existence of a VOOM health table. The ratio between Apharmd's and Temjin's HP is 1000/950 against Apharmd, but it was 1100/1000 against Temjin, a clear difference.
Moving on to other VRs, it takes 27 Apharmd CW attacks to kill Viper II, but 26.5 attacks would do the job, so Viper II has 580 HP. It takes 48 Apharmd CW attacks to kill Bal-Bas-Bow, so he pretty clearly has 1050 HP in this matchup, which is a huge difference from his health against Temjin. Everyone else, Belgdor, Raiden, Dorkas, and Fei-Yen have the exact same health against Apharmd as when against Temjin.
Meanwhile it takes 44 Apharmd CW attacks to kill Temjin. More precisely, it takes 43 attacks plus two pixels of health to finish him off. It's fairly clear that Temjin has exactly 950 HP in this matchup. Note that this finally proves the existence of a VOOM health table. The ratio between Apharmd's and Temjin's HP is 1000/950 against Apharmd, but it was 1100/1000 against Temjin, a clear difference.
Moving on to other VRs, it takes 27 Apharmd CW attacks to kill Viper II, but 26.5 attacks would do the job, so Viper II has 580 HP. It takes 48 Apharmd CW attacks to kill Bal-Bas-Bow, so he pretty clearly has 1050 HP in this matchup, which is a huge difference from his health against Temjin. Everyone else, Belgdor, Raiden, Dorkas, and Fei-Yen have the exact same health against Apharmd as when against Temjin.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Unfortunately those are all the beam cutter attacks in VOOM, so we don't have an immediate way to figure out the health table for other VR combinations. One way of doing that involves guessing at the raw damage value for at least one attack on each remaining VR. For now, let's test some damages of Temjin's and Apharmd's other attacks, in the hopes of noticing patterns that may allow us to guess attack damages for other VRs.
Using several methods based on the ones used previously, I am absolutely certain that Temjin's standing LW, jumping LW, and Apharmd's standing LW, jumping LW, and side dash LW each do exactly 100 damage (without time bonus), or 10% life against themselves. We might be able to use this to guess bomb or LW damage for some other VRs. I also tested that Temjin's and Apharmd's crouching LW do 180 damage, and their forward dash LW do 150 damage. Temjin's side and back dash LW seem to do 75 damage, while Apharmd's back dash LW does 80 damage. I am not as confident in these results so I probably won't try to use them to guess attack damages for other VRs.
Now let's switch to attacking with Fei-Yen. In VOOT, her standing LW does exactly 100 damage. It takes exactly 9 VOOM standing LW to kill Temjin, so I'm going to guess that the damage is the same, and that Temjin has 900 HP in this matchup. This is reinforced by another sign. The lifebar starts to flash slowly below half health, then it flashes at medium speed below one-third health, and finally it flashes at high speed below one-quarter health. Testing with 6 Fei-Yen standing LW proves that at exactly one-third health, the lifebar is still flashing at slow speed. In turn it must be the case that Temjin was exactly killed by the 9th attack.
As luck would have it, there are other perfect attacks for Fei-Yen. Her jumping CW, side dash CW, and back dash CW all do 150 damage, as exactly 6 of those hearts kill Temjin. At the same time, the 3rd heart leaves his bar with no flashing, and the 4th heart leaves his health bar with slow flashing. Another indicator of exact health is that when it drops below one-third there will be a unique explosion and afterwards the VR looks slightly damaged. When health drops below one-fifth there is a different unique explosion and afterwards the VR looks heavily damaged. Attacks that cause a knockdown can also make damage appear on random parts of a VR's body but that is a different phenomena.
Here are Fei-Yen's other damages, which I'm quite confident in. Forward dash LW does 90 damage per shot. Crouching LW, side dash LW, and back dash LW do 80 damage per shot. (Two shots are fired, taking double the energy). Jumping LW does 120 damage. Standing CW does 160 damage. Forward dash CW does 180 damage. Crouching RW does 10 damage per shot (fires up to five shots). Her remaining damages vary with distance. At far distance, standing RW does 30 damage per shot. Forward dash RW does 40 damage per shot, side and back dash RW do 20 damage per shot (they fire four shots), and jumping RW does 20 damage per shot (fires six shots). At closer distances, different stages alter the increases in damage by a tiny amount, so testing those damages is not useful for the purposes of this thread. I noticed that different stages also alter knockdown resistance slightly, and in turn being knocked down can alter damages further.
Fei-Yen's CC LW and CC RW do exactly 300 damage. Temjin's CC LW and RW do exactly 250 damage, and Apharmd's CC LW and RW do exactly 200 damage. I estimate that Temjin's CC CW and crouching CC CW do 350 damage, Apharmd's CC CW does 450 damage, and Apharmd's crouching CC CW does 360 damage.
Using several methods based on the ones used previously, I am absolutely certain that Temjin's standing LW, jumping LW, and Apharmd's standing LW, jumping LW, and side dash LW each do exactly 100 damage (without time bonus), or 10% life against themselves. We might be able to use this to guess bomb or LW damage for some other VRs. I also tested that Temjin's and Apharmd's crouching LW do 180 damage, and their forward dash LW do 150 damage. Temjin's side and back dash LW seem to do 75 damage, while Apharmd's back dash LW does 80 damage. I am not as confident in these results so I probably won't try to use them to guess attack damages for other VRs.
Now let's switch to attacking with Fei-Yen. In VOOT, her standing LW does exactly 100 damage. It takes exactly 9 VOOM standing LW to kill Temjin, so I'm going to guess that the damage is the same, and that Temjin has 900 HP in this matchup. This is reinforced by another sign. The lifebar starts to flash slowly below half health, then it flashes at medium speed below one-third health, and finally it flashes at high speed below one-quarter health. Testing with 6 Fei-Yen standing LW proves that at exactly one-third health, the lifebar is still flashing at slow speed. In turn it must be the case that Temjin was exactly killed by the 9th attack.
As luck would have it, there are other perfect attacks for Fei-Yen. Her jumping CW, side dash CW, and back dash CW all do 150 damage, as exactly 6 of those hearts kill Temjin. At the same time, the 3rd heart leaves his bar with no flashing, and the 4th heart leaves his health bar with slow flashing. Another indicator of exact health is that when it drops below one-third there will be a unique explosion and afterwards the VR looks slightly damaged. When health drops below one-fifth there is a different unique explosion and afterwards the VR looks heavily damaged. Attacks that cause a knockdown can also make damage appear on random parts of a VR's body but that is a different phenomena.
Here are Fei-Yen's other damages, which I'm quite confident in. Forward dash LW does 90 damage per shot. Crouching LW, side dash LW, and back dash LW do 80 damage per shot. (Two shots are fired, taking double the energy). Jumping LW does 120 damage. Standing CW does 160 damage. Forward dash CW does 180 damage. Crouching RW does 10 damage per shot (fires up to five shots). Her remaining damages vary with distance. At far distance, standing RW does 30 damage per shot. Forward dash RW does 40 damage per shot, side and back dash RW do 20 damage per shot (they fire four shots), and jumping RW does 20 damage per shot (fires six shots). At closer distances, different stages alter the increases in damage by a tiny amount, so testing those damages is not useful for the purposes of this thread. I noticed that different stages also alter knockdown resistance slightly, and in turn being knocked down can alter damages further.
Fei-Yen's CC LW and CC RW do exactly 300 damage. Temjin's CC LW and RW do exactly 250 damage, and Apharmd's CC LW and RW do exactly 200 damage. I estimate that Temjin's CC CW and crouching CC CW do 350 damage, Apharmd's CC CW does 450 damage, and Apharmd's crouching CC CW does 360 damage.
Last edited by Porcupine on 23 Apr 2015, 18:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
One thing that might explain the strange results with Bal-Bas-Bow is that there's something weird going on with his hitbox (the area that needs to be hit to cause damage), which appears to be smaller than the actual VR. So you can fire your weapons at him or do a CC attack that by all means ought to connect, and he won't be hit. Dorkas has a similar problem.
I will check my VOOM game books to see whether any of them list HP information.
I will check my VOOM game books to see whether any of them list HP information.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Determining the health of Fei-Yen's opponents is now quick and easy. Simply pea shoot them up with various RW attacks. The low damage ensures a precise result. At the same time, the high rate of fire means there is no need to wait for the 10% time damage bonus to kick in, as the enemy can be killed before it starts.
In this matchup, Bal-Bas-Bow has 900 HP, the same as Temjin. Belgdor once again has 1000 HP. Dorkas again has 1300 HP. Raiden has 1600 HP this time. Apharmd has 1200 HP this time. Fei-Yen once again has 830 HP. Viper II this time has 530 HP.
After further thought, a new method of measuring HP more accurately occurred to me. I can shoot some shots before the 10% time bonus, and others after it, to control my damage with the highest precision. With Fei-Yen I can thus get the damage exact to 1 HP, so I went back to check my previous results, and I can confirm they are exactly correct. I also went back to check my results with Temjin and Apharmd as attackers, and they were all exactly correct as well.
In this matchup, Bal-Bas-Bow has 900 HP, the same as Temjin. Belgdor once again has 1000 HP. Dorkas again has 1300 HP. Raiden has 1600 HP this time. Apharmd has 1200 HP this time. Fei-Yen once again has 830 HP. Viper II this time has 530 HP.
After further thought, a new method of measuring HP more accurately occurred to me. I can shoot some shots before the 10% time bonus, and others after it, to control my damage with the highest precision. With Fei-Yen I can thus get the damage exact to 1 HP, so I went back to check my previous results, and I can confirm they are exactly correct. I also went back to check my results with Temjin and Apharmd as attackers, and they were all exactly correct as well.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Raiden's LW ground bombs don't have the same damage as Temjin's bombs, but fortunately his standing and crouching CW lasers do exactly half damage to Temjin, so we can use that to establish his baseline by assuming they do 500 damage and that Temjin has 1000 HP against him.
Here are some of Raiden's other damages that I tested. Standing and jumping LW do 120 damage, forward dash LW does 160 damage, side dash LW does 80 damage, and forward dash CW does 100 damage (per burst of 4-way lasers). At far distance, standing RW does 100 damage, side dash RW does 30 damage per missile (fires a stream of 8 missiles), and back dash RW does 60 damage per missile (fires two).
In this matchup, Belgdor has 1000 HP, Viper II has 630 HP, Raiden has 1400 HP, Dorkas has 1300 HP, Fei-Yen has 830 HP, Apharmd has 1300 HP, and Bal-Bas-Bow has 1050 HP.
Here are some of Raiden's other damages that I tested. Standing and jumping LW do 120 damage, forward dash LW does 160 damage, side dash LW does 80 damage, and forward dash CW does 100 damage (per burst of 4-way lasers). At far distance, standing RW does 100 damage, side dash RW does 30 damage per missile (fires a stream of 8 missiles), and back dash RW does 60 damage per missile (fires two).
In this matchup, Belgdor has 1000 HP, Viper II has 630 HP, Raiden has 1400 HP, Dorkas has 1300 HP, Fei-Yen has 830 HP, Apharmd has 1300 HP, and Bal-Bas-Bow has 1050 HP.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
No attacks from Belgdor work out perfectly on Temjin, but it takes exactly four forward dash LW to kill another Belgdor, so I will assume it does 250 damage and that Belgdor has 1000 HP (which he always has so far). Crouching LW also does 250 damage, standing and jumping LW do 220 damage, side and back dash LW do 180 damage, CC LW does 300 damage, CC RW does 220 damage, and from far distance standing RW does 70 damage. (The required distance to reach its lowest damage is greater than typical, so a large stage must be used).
In this matchup, Temjin has 850 HP, Viper II has 480 HP, Raiden has 1400 HP, Dorkas has 1300 HP, Fei-Yen has 830 HP, Apharmd has 1200 HP, and Bal-Bas-Bow has 1050 HP.
As an aside, the damage from Belgdor standing CW is complicated. The second pair of missiles does more damage, has greater stagger value, and travels faster than the first pair. Its damage is not dependent on distance, but from far distance the second pair of missiles hits before the first pair and staggers them, so they won't take the additional damage from the first pair.
In this matchup, Temjin has 850 HP, Viper II has 480 HP, Raiden has 1400 HP, Dorkas has 1300 HP, Fei-Yen has 830 HP, Apharmd has 1200 HP, and Bal-Bas-Bow has 1050 HP.
As an aside, the damage from Belgdor standing CW is complicated. The second pair of missiles does more damage, has greater stagger value, and travels faster than the first pair. Its damage is not dependent on distance, but from far distance the second pair of missiles hits before the first pair and staggers them, so they won't take the additional damage from the first pair.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Our savior with Dorkas is his CC RW which kills Belgdor in exactly 4 hits, therefore doing 250 damage with Belgdor having 1000 HP. In turn I determined that jumping LW does 120 damage, crouching LW does 80 damage, side and back dash LW do 140 damage, forward dash LW does 225 damage, standing LW does 180 damage, and CC LW does 400 damage. I had an issue extrapolating the damage of forward dash LW as the pixels seemed off by one pixel at times but then I realized those tests were done with the time damage bonus active and that 247.5 became truncated. Crouching RW does 80 damage per shot, firing twice. The bomb at the tip instead does 95 damage per explosion. Standing RW does 100 ~ 60 damage depending on range. Its maximum damage is reached on most stages before close combat range.
Against Dorkas, Temjin has 1100 HP, Viper II has 580 HP, Raiden has 1400 HP, Dorkas has 1300 HP, Fei-Yen has 830 HP, Apharmd has 1300 HP, and Bal-Bas-Bow has 700 HP.
Sometimes knockdowns alter damages a little in this game. Hitting the enemy with Dorkas CC RWs then one close standing RW does less damage than one close standing RW followed by CC RWs (the shot is where the damage changes). Mixtures of big damage knockdown attacks with distance varying RW shots is the most common trigger, so I try to avoid those combinations when testing HP.
Against Dorkas, Temjin has 1100 HP, Viper II has 580 HP, Raiden has 1400 HP, Dorkas has 1300 HP, Fei-Yen has 830 HP, Apharmd has 1300 HP, and Bal-Bas-Bow has 700 HP.
Sometimes knockdowns alter damages a little in this game. Hitting the enemy with Dorkas CC RWs then one close standing RW does less damage than one close standing RW followed by CC RWs (the shot is where the damage changes). Mixtures of big damage knockdown attacks with distance varying RW shots is the most common trigger, so I try to avoid those combinations when testing HP.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Against Viper II, both Temjin and Belgdor have 1000 HP, with his standing and forward dash CW doing an even 250 damage. Side dash CW does 180 damage, back dash CW does 150 damage, jumping CW does 225 damage, standing and crouching LW do 150 damage (for one missile hit), jumping and back dash LW do 120 damage (usually only one missile out of the cluster counts for a hit), CC LW does 420 damage, CC RW does 380 damage, standing RW does 35 damage per shot at far range on large stages, and crouching RW does 15 damage per shot (at even more extreme distances).
Against Viper II, Raiden has a whopping 1800 HP. Dorkas as usual has 1300 HP. Fei-Yen as usual has 830 HP. Another Viper II has 630 HP. Apharmd has 1250 HP. Bal-Bas-Bow has a puny 600 HP.
Against Viper II, Raiden has a whopping 1800 HP. Dorkas as usual has 1300 HP. Fei-Yen as usual has 830 HP. Another Viper II has 630 HP. Apharmd has 1250 HP. Bal-Bas-Bow has a puny 600 HP.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Bal-Bas-Bow wasn't too cooperative but eventually I found that standing RW at extremely far distance takes exactly twenty hits to kill Belgdor so it probably does 50 damage, with Belgdor now having 1000 HP in every matchup. From this we can determine that back dash RW does 40 damage per ring at far distance on a large stage (shoots four rings) and that back dash LW does 40 damage per mine (shoots three mines in a spread but only the middle one hits a nonmoving enemy). That is sufficient information to determine opponent healths to 1 HP if desired.
Bal's opponents have very unusual healths. Temjin has 850 HP, Viper II has 750 HP, Raiden has 1600 HP, Dorkas has 1500 HP, Fei-Yen has 1000 HP, Apharmd has 1000 HP, and another Bal-Bas-Bow has 750 HP, leaving Belgdor as the only VR with consistent health. It's possible the damage of Bal's attacks is wrong, but that is unlikely as these healths work out exactly, look nice, and relative to each other must be accurate anyway. The test against Fei-Yen reveals that at exactly 50.0% health she is still in normal mode.
Some other damages for Bal are standing LW does 80 damage, crouching LW does 80 damage (three mines hit a nonmoving enemy at roughly the same time so only one counts), side dash LW does 65 damage (the middle two mines out of four will hit a nonmoving enemy but I believe only one counts), forward dash LW does 95 damage per blob (shoots a blob pair twice) and the jumping CW reflect lasers do 180 damage per beam (fires eight beams but usually knocks down after one or two).
Bal's opponents have very unusual healths. Temjin has 850 HP, Viper II has 750 HP, Raiden has 1600 HP, Dorkas has 1500 HP, Fei-Yen has 1000 HP, Apharmd has 1000 HP, and another Bal-Bas-Bow has 750 HP, leaving Belgdor as the only VR with consistent health. It's possible the damage of Bal's attacks is wrong, but that is unlikely as these healths work out exactly, look nice, and relative to each other must be accurate anyway. The test against Fei-Yen reveals that at exactly 50.0% health she is still in normal mode.
Some other damages for Bal are standing LW does 80 damage, crouching LW does 80 damage (three mines hit a nonmoving enemy at roughly the same time so only one counts), side dash LW does 65 damage (the middle two mines out of four will hit a nonmoving enemy but I believe only one counts), forward dash LW does 95 damage per blob (shoots a blob pair twice) and the jumping CW reflect lasers do 180 damage per beam (fires eight beams but usually knocks down after one or two).
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
After all the testing, here is the VOOM health table.
![Image](http://i.imgur.com/j1Gt3ca.png)
![Image](http://mojoimage.com/free-image-hosting-13/1229VOOM.png)
The second table is derived from the information in the raw health table. The idea is that just knowing a VR's health in a matchup is misleading. You have to know how the opponent VR's health adjusts as well. The second table combines them to show how favorable each matchup is in terms of health, relative to what the two participants typically have. The value for each VR's typical or base health is chosen by my personal judgment.
![Image](http://i.imgur.com/j1Gt3ca.png)
![Image](http://mojoimage.com/free-image-hosting-13/1229VOOM.png)
The second table is derived from the information in the raw health table. The idea is that just knowing a VR's health in a matchup is misleading. You have to know how the opponent VR's health adjusts as well. The second table combines them to show how favorable each matchup is in terms of health, relative to what the two participants typically have. The value for each VR's typical or base health is chosen by my personal judgment.
Last edited by Porcupine on 01 Jun 2017, 18:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Does it matter from how far you fire Viper II's CW? (you can use it from pointblank range, instead of a LW or RW CC attack)Porcupine wrote:Against Viper II, both Temjin and Belgdor have 1000 HP, with his standing and forward dash CW doing an even 250 damage. Side dash CW does 180 damage, back dash CW does 150 damage, jumping CW does 225 damage, standing and crouching LW do 150 damage (for one missile hit), jumping and back dash LW do 120 damage (usually only one missile out of the cluster counts for a hit), CC LW does 420 damage, CC RW does 380 damage, standing RW does 35 damage per shot at far range on large stages, and crouching RW does 15 damage per shot (at even more extreme distances).
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
No it doesn't, it seems that the only VOOM attacks that vary in damage with range are most RW attacks. I'll try to finish the damage list for some VRs, including their RWs.
I realized that I can use the machinegun trick to fire Fei-Yen's standing RW at a more controlled rate so I no longer have to deal with knockdowns for it. Here are its distance varying damages against Temjin on each stage. On Flooded City and Waterfront, Fei-Yen's standing RW does 44 damage at 45.0m and drops to 30 damage at 376.7m which is almost at the edge. On Space Dock, it does 44 damage at 45.0m and drops to 30 damage at 322.2m and beyond. On Ruins, it does exactly 45 damage at 61.0m and closer. The damage fluctuates between 61.1m and 61.2m but is a stable 44 damage at 61.3m range. The damage drops to 30 damage at 333.0m on the raised border. On Green Hills, it does 45 damage at 61.1m and closer, 44 damage at 61.4m and drops to 30 damage at 350.8m and beyond. On Moon Base, it does 44 damage at 45.0m and drops to 30 damage at 368.5m which is almost at the edge. However, I found that if I first push Temjin back by dashing into him once, it drops to 30 damage when she is 438.3m from him instead! This led to a barrage of tests after which I discovered that the distance calculation for the damage formula is bugged.
The error is that the coordinate system for Player 2 does not match the coordinate system for Player 1. From Fei-Yen's perspective at the start of the round, let's call walking right the positive x-axis, walking forward the positive y-axis, and jumping the positive z-axis. It turns out that Temjin's positive x-axis points in the same direction as Fei-Yen's positive y-axis. Temjin's positive y-axis points in the same direction as Fei-Yen's positive z-axis, towards the sky. And Temjin's positive z-axis points in the same direction as Fei-Yen's positive x-axis. Aside from this mistake the distance is calculated normally, as the magnitude of the difference of both players' position coordinates. The origin of both players' coordinate systems is the center of the map, which becomes an important location under the bugged formula, as it is essentially the place of greatest damage.
This bug perfectly explains why knockdowns can alter the damage of RW attacks, and creates all kinds of bizarre phenomena that I'll save for another thread. Let's focus here on proving my formula with the tested data. In Moon Base, both VRs start 100m apart from each other. Temjin is 50m above the center of the map. To get the lowest damage, Fei-Yen had to go 318.5m below the center of the map. The bugged distance between them is therefore 322.4m according to the Pythagorean Theorem, not 368.5m as the game displays. In the second example, with Temjin pushed back I measured that the stage edge was 473.8m below him, instead of 369.8m by default. This means I pushed him back 104m, so he is 154m above the center of the map. To get the lowest damage, Fei-Yen had to go 284.3m below the center of the map. The bugged distance between them is therefore 323.3m according to the Pythagorean Theorem, not 438.3m as the game displays. Success, the bugged distances are almost equal in our two examples.
To get them exactly equal, we must include VR heights in the bugged formula. I calculated that both bugged distances are 331.0m when Temjin's height is 8.7m which seems very reasonable. Fei-Yen's height does not matter because it cancels away for our particular scenario.
The bugged formula explains the identical results on Flooded City and Waterfront. Obstacles prevented me from testing Airport and Death Trap but they should also have the same results. Moon Base appeared different only because both VRs start 100m apart from each other instead of the usual 120m. Likewise, what changed Green Hills is the 60m starting distance of both VRs. Ruins has a starting distance of 80m and the height change of the border also affected some results. Space Dock has a starting distance of 100m but is also asymmetrical, skewing the coordinate origin and the results. It is 320m to the left and right like all other stages (except Green Hills which is 480m to each edge) but 350m down and 370m up, from the middle of the two VR's starting positions. Shooting Temjin from behind allows Fei-Yen's RW to do 45 damage at 71.7m or less. From this I estimate the stage's origin is 15m above the 2nd player's starting position.
I realized that I can use the machinegun trick to fire Fei-Yen's standing RW at a more controlled rate so I no longer have to deal with knockdowns for it. Here are its distance varying damages against Temjin on each stage. On Flooded City and Waterfront, Fei-Yen's standing RW does 44 damage at 45.0m and drops to 30 damage at 376.7m which is almost at the edge. On Space Dock, it does 44 damage at 45.0m and drops to 30 damage at 322.2m and beyond. On Ruins, it does exactly 45 damage at 61.0m and closer. The damage fluctuates between 61.1m and 61.2m but is a stable 44 damage at 61.3m range. The damage drops to 30 damage at 333.0m on the raised border. On Green Hills, it does 45 damage at 61.1m and closer, 44 damage at 61.4m and drops to 30 damage at 350.8m and beyond. On Moon Base, it does 44 damage at 45.0m and drops to 30 damage at 368.5m which is almost at the edge. However, I found that if I first push Temjin back by dashing into him once, it drops to 30 damage when she is 438.3m from him instead! This led to a barrage of tests after which I discovered that the distance calculation for the damage formula is bugged.
The error is that the coordinate system for Player 2 does not match the coordinate system for Player 1. From Fei-Yen's perspective at the start of the round, let's call walking right the positive x-axis, walking forward the positive y-axis, and jumping the positive z-axis. It turns out that Temjin's positive x-axis points in the same direction as Fei-Yen's positive y-axis. Temjin's positive y-axis points in the same direction as Fei-Yen's positive z-axis, towards the sky. And Temjin's positive z-axis points in the same direction as Fei-Yen's positive x-axis. Aside from this mistake the distance is calculated normally, as the magnitude of the difference of both players' position coordinates. The origin of both players' coordinate systems is the center of the map, which becomes an important location under the bugged formula, as it is essentially the place of greatest damage.
This bug perfectly explains why knockdowns can alter the damage of RW attacks, and creates all kinds of bizarre phenomena that I'll save for another thread. Let's focus here on proving my formula with the tested data. In Moon Base, both VRs start 100m apart from each other. Temjin is 50m above the center of the map. To get the lowest damage, Fei-Yen had to go 318.5m below the center of the map. The bugged distance between them is therefore 322.4m according to the Pythagorean Theorem, not 368.5m as the game displays. In the second example, with Temjin pushed back I measured that the stage edge was 473.8m below him, instead of 369.8m by default. This means I pushed him back 104m, so he is 154m above the center of the map. To get the lowest damage, Fei-Yen had to go 284.3m below the center of the map. The bugged distance between them is therefore 323.3m according to the Pythagorean Theorem, not 438.3m as the game displays. Success, the bugged distances are almost equal in our two examples.
To get them exactly equal, we must include VR heights in the bugged formula. I calculated that both bugged distances are 331.0m when Temjin's height is 8.7m which seems very reasonable. Fei-Yen's height does not matter because it cancels away for our particular scenario.
The bugged formula explains the identical results on Flooded City and Waterfront. Obstacles prevented me from testing Airport and Death Trap but they should also have the same results. Moon Base appeared different only because both VRs start 100m apart from each other instead of the usual 120m. Likewise, what changed Green Hills is the 60m starting distance of both VRs. Ruins has a starting distance of 80m and the height change of the border also affected some results. Space Dock has a starting distance of 100m but is also asymmetrical, skewing the coordinate origin and the results. It is 320m to the left and right like all other stages (except Green Hills which is 480m to each edge) but 350m down and 370m up, from the middle of the two VR's starting positions. Shooting Temjin from behind allows Fei-Yen's RW to do 45 damage at 71.7m or less. From this I estimate the stage's origin is 15m above the 2nd player's starting position.
Last edited by Porcupine on 08 May 2015, 18:39, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Have you experienced the bug yet where dashing FW into your enemy makes you end up staring at the sky (well, a blue screen that looks like the sky with the targetting sight/distance thingies visible and nothing else), firing weapons gives the sound effects and nothing else, and your enemy's weapons can't hit you either? I've had it occur in Flooded City and Green Hills.
Or did they fix it in the Xbox version?
Or did they fix it in the Xbox version?
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
I haven't seen that but it sounds like a similar bug, where if you stand still at the edge of the stage, sometimes you are in the wall and shots will not be able to hit you.
Anyway, now we know Fei-Yen's standing RW does up to 45 damage, at 50m or less, in bugged game distance. Though difficult to test, I think at close distances her forward dash RW does a maximum of 55 damage per shot, while jumping RW, side dash RW, and back dash RW do up to 25 damage per shot.
I also managed to test all of Hyper Fei-Yen's attacks. Standing LW does 150 damage. Crouching LW does 120 damage per shot. Jumping LW does 160 damage. Forward dash LW does 140 damage per shot. Side and back dash LW do 150 damage per shot. Standing, jumping, side and back dash LW knock Temjin back. Be careful with side and back dash LW because the second shot will be wasted if this happens. Standing CW does 400 damage, jumping CW does 260 damage, forward dash CW does 300 damage, side dash CW does 240 damage, and back dash CW does 220 damage. Crouching RW does 15 damage per shot. At far distance, standing RW does 35 damage per shot, while jumping RW, side dash RW, and back dash RW all do 30 damage per shot. Side dash RW fires a three-by-three spread when hyper. Forward dash RW does the same 40 damage per shot as when normal. CC also does the same damage as normal.
At close distance, hyper standing RW does up to 50 damage per shot. The rest were difficult to test. Forward dash RW seemed to only do 50 damage per shot which is weaker than the normal version. Jumping RW, side dash RW, and back dash RW can do 45 damage per shot. At fairly close distances side dash RW will fire a fourth time, for twelve shots total. That goes by bug distance as well. At point-blank range it is possible to hit with the full spread but it seems the side shots do not count, as they hit simultaneously or too closely together.
Anyway, now we know Fei-Yen's standing RW does up to 45 damage, at 50m or less, in bugged game distance. Though difficult to test, I think at close distances her forward dash RW does a maximum of 55 damage per shot, while jumping RW, side dash RW, and back dash RW do up to 25 damage per shot.
I also managed to test all of Hyper Fei-Yen's attacks. Standing LW does 150 damage. Crouching LW does 120 damage per shot. Jumping LW does 160 damage. Forward dash LW does 140 damage per shot. Side and back dash LW do 150 damage per shot. Standing, jumping, side and back dash LW knock Temjin back. Be careful with side and back dash LW because the second shot will be wasted if this happens. Standing CW does 400 damage, jumping CW does 260 damage, forward dash CW does 300 damage, side dash CW does 240 damage, and back dash CW does 220 damage. Crouching RW does 15 damage per shot. At far distance, standing RW does 35 damage per shot, while jumping RW, side dash RW, and back dash RW all do 30 damage per shot. Side dash RW fires a three-by-three spread when hyper. Forward dash RW does the same 40 damage per shot as when normal. CC also does the same damage as normal.
At close distance, hyper standing RW does up to 50 damage per shot. The rest were difficult to test. Forward dash RW seemed to only do 50 damage per shot which is weaker than the normal version. Jumping RW, side dash RW, and back dash RW can do 45 damage per shot. At fairly close distances side dash RW will fire a fourth time, for twelve shots total. That goes by bug distance as well. At point-blank range it is possible to hit with the full spread but it seems the side shots do not count, as they hit simultaneously or too closely together.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Temjin is very dependent on his RW so he is weakened by the distance bug, but his RW is pretty damaging at far range and somehow maintains fairly constant levels of damage even at closer ranges, as we shall see.
Forward dash RW does a maximum of 260 damage per shot, which it normally only attains at the starting positions of Green Hills or Space Dock, so that would be 50m or less in bugged game distance, where it knocks down in one shot. At any lesser damage, another Temjin will instead be staggered back. At medium distances it will no longer stagger and can hit with both shots, potentially resulting in greater damage against some VRs. I was able to do as much as 312 damage on another Temjin. The enemy may be staggered or knocked down by the second shot. At far distance, forward dash RW drops to 100 damage per shot.
Side dash RW does a maximum of 90 damage per shot which is reached at medium distance. On Flooded City, starting at 257.9m from the opponent's initial position, right side dash RW does maximum damage. It usually knocks down after all four shots hit, but the knockdown strength continues to increase at closer distances. At point-blank range it knocks down another Temjin in three hits, but this is highly unlikely to happen in real fights as this goes by bugged distance. After the damage has dropped enough side dash RW will no longer knock down at all, and at far distance it does 60 damage per shot.
Back dash RW does a maximum of 100 damage per shot which is reached at a moderately close distance. At far distance it does 50 damage per shot. It does not stagger at any distance so both shots usually hit. On Green Hills, performing it at the starting position results in the maximum damage. Considering the backwards movement, I estimate that back dash RW has the same maximum and minimum limits as crouching RW.
Crouching RW does 120 damage per shot at 146.8m or less on Flooded City (against Belgdor for his height and stagger resistance) and drops to 60 damage per shot at far distance. Usually only the first shot can hit, as the second shot is too high. At point-blank CC range it can do 240 damage on VRs with high stagger resistance, though due to the distance bug this can only happen at the center of the stage. Typically it does 120 damage with two point-blank CC shots.
Standing RW does 140 damage at 189.1m or less on Flooded City, and drops to 80 damage at far distance, requiring a slightly larger than typical stage. Jumping RW seems to be exactly the same per shot, however due to the height of the jump and the distance bug, it reaches 140 damage when the jump is started from 131.7m or less. It knocks down another Temjin after the first two shots. A bit further out, all three shots can hit. I was able to do as much as 396 damage on another Temjin.
Forward dash RW does a maximum of 260 damage per shot, which it normally only attains at the starting positions of Green Hills or Space Dock, so that would be 50m or less in bugged game distance, where it knocks down in one shot. At any lesser damage, another Temjin will instead be staggered back. At medium distances it will no longer stagger and can hit with both shots, potentially resulting in greater damage against some VRs. I was able to do as much as 312 damage on another Temjin. The enemy may be staggered or knocked down by the second shot. At far distance, forward dash RW drops to 100 damage per shot.
Side dash RW does a maximum of 90 damage per shot which is reached at medium distance. On Flooded City, starting at 257.9m from the opponent's initial position, right side dash RW does maximum damage. It usually knocks down after all four shots hit, but the knockdown strength continues to increase at closer distances. At point-blank range it knocks down another Temjin in three hits, but this is highly unlikely to happen in real fights as this goes by bugged distance. After the damage has dropped enough side dash RW will no longer knock down at all, and at far distance it does 60 damage per shot.
Back dash RW does a maximum of 100 damage per shot which is reached at a moderately close distance. At far distance it does 50 damage per shot. It does not stagger at any distance so both shots usually hit. On Green Hills, performing it at the starting position results in the maximum damage. Considering the backwards movement, I estimate that back dash RW has the same maximum and minimum limits as crouching RW.
Crouching RW does 120 damage per shot at 146.8m or less on Flooded City (against Belgdor for his height and stagger resistance) and drops to 60 damage per shot at far distance. Usually only the first shot can hit, as the second shot is too high. At point-blank CC range it can do 240 damage on VRs with high stagger resistance, though due to the distance bug this can only happen at the center of the stage. Typically it does 120 damage with two point-blank CC shots.
Standing RW does 140 damage at 189.1m or less on Flooded City, and drops to 80 damage at far distance, requiring a slightly larger than typical stage. Jumping RW seems to be exactly the same per shot, however due to the height of the jump and the distance bug, it reaches 140 damage when the jump is started from 131.7m or less. It knocks down another Temjin after the first two shots. A bit further out, all three shots can hit. I was able to do as much as 396 damage on another Temjin.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Further testing revealed that Viper II, Fei-Yen, and Bal-Bas-Bow have a lower knockdown resistance than I previously thought, which really works to their advantage against Temjin. All three of them will always at least be staggered by one shot from Temjin's forward dash RW. This makes that attack extremely affected by range. Combined with the bugged distance formula, this explains why Temjin has a harder time beating these VRs than he should. He is basically suffering from a 2:1 damage disadvantage against them.
His best specialty attack against these three is crouching RW which hits tall VRs at close distances, where it's nearly undodgeable. But even that attack suffers from a 2:1 damage disadvantage with the distance bug. I used to think that move was a huge threat, especially at the start of each round. But they only need to flee from the RW danger area and the rest of the fight can be had on their territory.
At close range, light VRs are also protected from side dash RW, back dash RW, jumping RW, and machinegunned RW, staggering after just one hit. At far range these hit for full damage, except side dash RW which only gets three hits on Viper II and Fei-Yen.
His best specialty attack against these three is crouching RW which hits tall VRs at close distances, where it's nearly undodgeable. But even that attack suffers from a 2:1 damage disadvantage with the distance bug. I used to think that move was a huge threat, especially at the start of each round. But they only need to flee from the RW danger area and the rest of the fight can be had on their territory.
At close range, light VRs are also protected from side dash RW, back dash RW, jumping RW, and machinegunned RW, staggering after just one hit. At far range these hit for full damage, except side dash RW which only gets three hits on Viper II and Fei-Yen.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Apharmd is a pseudo clone of Temjin who is usually considered to have a more distance dependent RW. But now that we know about the distance bug, does he really?
Standing RW does 115 damage at close range and drops to 40 damage at far range, which is the biggest change in damage yet. Forward dash RW does 120 damage per pair of shots at close range, dropping to 50 damage per pair at far range, shooting three pairs. Medium and heavy VRs are knocked down by the last hit if they take enough damage and can take 360 damage maximum.
Apharmd's remaining attacks are less distance dependent. Jumping RW and back dash RW do 80 damage per shot at close range, dropping to 40 damage per shot at far range, shooting three times. Side dash RW reaches 80 damage per shot at moderately close range (the starting positions of most stages are roughly sufficient) and drops to 45 damage per shot at far range.
Apharmd's crouching RW is like Temjin's but the shots have a maximum range of 252.4m (against Bal) and do 85 damage per shot at any range. At the tip of its range there are explosions that reach out to 255.2m and do 132 damage.
These explosions occur at the end of all Apharmd's RW shots, not just crouching RW. Normally they cannot hit, however VOOM has erratic hit detection and occasionally shots that should hit will randomly miss straight through the center of the opponent's body. For others this is bad, but for Apharmd it's good because the explosion will hit instead, doing more damage. Explosions do 146 damage at point-blank bug distance but 132 damage otherwise, with no region of gradual drop in between (perhaps that's also the reason the damage values are not nice numbers).
This phenomena happens more often with certain attacks and against skinny VRs. It happens relatively often with any of Apharmd's dash RW attacks, especially side dash RW when used at close range. It fires a three-by-three spread but as usual the side shots do not count if the full spread hits. It's instead the explosions taking over that increases the damage. Up to three explosions can replace shots, doing 396 damage (at the center of the stage I'm able to do up to 424 damage, but more commonly I get 372 damage). This phenomena may be what causes people to think Apharmd's RW attacks are more damaging close up, as it does not go by bug distance.
Standing RW does 115 damage at close range and drops to 40 damage at far range, which is the biggest change in damage yet. Forward dash RW does 120 damage per pair of shots at close range, dropping to 50 damage per pair at far range, shooting three pairs. Medium and heavy VRs are knocked down by the last hit if they take enough damage and can take 360 damage maximum.
Apharmd's remaining attacks are less distance dependent. Jumping RW and back dash RW do 80 damage per shot at close range, dropping to 40 damage per shot at far range, shooting three times. Side dash RW reaches 80 damage per shot at moderately close range (the starting positions of most stages are roughly sufficient) and drops to 45 damage per shot at far range.
Apharmd's crouching RW is like Temjin's but the shots have a maximum range of 252.4m (against Bal) and do 85 damage per shot at any range. At the tip of its range there are explosions that reach out to 255.2m and do 132 damage.
These explosions occur at the end of all Apharmd's RW shots, not just crouching RW. Normally they cannot hit, however VOOM has erratic hit detection and occasionally shots that should hit will randomly miss straight through the center of the opponent's body. For others this is bad, but for Apharmd it's good because the explosion will hit instead, doing more damage. Explosions do 146 damage at point-blank bug distance but 132 damage otherwise, with no region of gradual drop in between (perhaps that's also the reason the damage values are not nice numbers).
This phenomena happens more often with certain attacks and against skinny VRs. It happens relatively often with any of Apharmd's dash RW attacks, especially side dash RW when used at close range. It fires a three-by-three spread but as usual the side shots do not count if the full spread hits. It's instead the explosions taking over that increases the damage. Up to three explosions can replace shots, doing 396 damage (at the center of the stage I'm able to do up to 424 damage, but more commonly I get 372 damage). This phenomena may be what causes people to think Apharmd's RW attacks are more damaging close up, as it does not go by bug distance.
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Re: VR health values in VOOM
Apharmd is less distance dependent against light VRs. At close range, Viper II, Fei-Yen, and Bal-Bas-Bow will stagger and be safe after just one forward dash RW or standing RW. Viper II will be knocked down after two normal hits from jumping RW, side dash RW, and back dash RW. Fei-Yen and Bal-Bas-Bow are knocked down on the last hit which doesn't help them. However, all three of them will be staggered from just one explosion which limits the damage they can take.
Apharmd seems better than Temjin against light VRs because his dashing RW attacks do full damage at far range, which is what matters most with the distance bug. His health table matchup against Bal-Bas-Bow is extremely bad though, so Temjin is better in that matchup.
Apharmd seems better than Temjin against light VRs because his dashing RW attacks do full damage at far range, which is what matters most with the distance bug. His health table matchup against Bal-Bas-Bow is extremely bad though, so Temjin is better in that matchup.