Virtual-On Forums

Hori is now offering ability to place regular orders for the twin sticks until July 30 - english details here:
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2009/0 ... roduction/

Grips are MUCH better than the previous iteration. Now I'm tempted...

I still don't like the all black look, but it is an improvement over the prototype. The grips definitely look better.

Its...better, i'll give it that.

It's still abit bland though, for the pricetag anyway.

If they dropped like, $150 off, then yes yes, and hell yes ^^

Sega really needs to consider doing what they did with the Saturn Pad for the PS2 and simply remaking the Dreamcast Twin-Sticks for the 360.

DEFINITELY an welcome improvement.

Testament/Seven7 wrote:It's still abit bland though, for the pricetag anyway.

If they dropped like, $150 off, then yes yes, and hell yes ^^

I agree, but then again Hori have always made functional but bland looking sticks Thank God they decided to go with the proper grips, a bit of artwork too would've been nice.

I also agree on the price, maybe not $150 (that's asking too much) $100 would be nice.

Well for those who are seriously considering this after the redesign, NCS has opened up pre-orders again for the Hori Twinstick EX (presumably till July 30) here.

I absolutely agree that 30,000 yen is just painfully high for most people who are looking at a controller made specifically for only one game - especially when there are cheaper alternatives out there like modding/custom building.

With Sega out of the hardware business and with no new major release of a Virtual On game to back this peripheral, would it be reasonable to expect them to release twin sticks at prices on par with the Saturn and Dreamcast twin sticks? Well even with the releases of Marz and OMG on the PS2, Sega's apparent answer was no.

Although I'm completely ignorant about the ins and outs of manufacturing, I'm interested in trying to look at it from Hori's viewpoint. Could they lower the price to $100-150 and have it still be profitable? As has been discussed in previous threads, the arcade-quality components themselves plus labour costs and licensing fees could push past the $150-200 price point, and now they're also fabricating new grips and base. Also would it be worth their while re-allocating precious manufacturing resources away from their much more popular fighting stick products to make this decidedly limited niche offering.

So the question remains... is Hori doing the VOOT fans a favour or is this really just a quick money grab on their part?

i doubt Hori could make $100 sticks, while being profitable (they're asking triple that, a pure profit of $200 on a $300 item is unbelievable) $150 would probably be stretching. I'd guess Hori could probably sell at $150-$200 and manage out a few bucks. didn't someone mention the cost of each stick alone was at least $50-$60?

circuscommando wrote:i doubt Hori could make $100 sticks, while being profitable (they're asking triple that, a pure profit of $200 on a $300 item is unbelievable) $150 would probably be stretching. I'd guess Hori could probably sell at $150-$200 and manage out a few bucks. didn't someone mention the cost of each stick alone was at least $50-$60?

MSRP on the Sanwa sticks (JLJ-PL2-8NV, or -8V, I'm not sure) used in the prototype is about $85 each. I don't know what they are using in the final version.

It would have been better to go the route that Sega went with the DC Twin Sticks. Sega started with Seimitsu LS-56-01 joysticks (MSRP $12 each), and upgraded them to be sturdier and accept the VOOT arcade grips. They are not as good as the arcade, but they are way cheaper (MSRP less than $60!!) and still quite good (and even technically arcade quality). Hori could have done something similar, and maybe improve the sticks even more, and sell them for much cheaper than $300.

Now, it seems that Hori is actually doing something similar anyway. They seem to be using some arcade joystick (possibly still the JLJ-PL2-8NV), and either modifying it to accept the VOOT arcade grips (assuming a new production run of them), or building a custom grip that works on the joystick. This is also technically arcade quality, but the troubling thing is that doing this is still not as good as the arcade!!

However, nobody has the Twin Stick EX in hand right now, and there are no pics or details of the internals. It is possible that Hori struck a deal with the OEM for the VOOT arcade controls (probably Sanwa or Seimitsu) to have them do a limited run of parts. I think this is unlikely, but it would mean that the Hori Twin Stick EX would be arcade perfect, and $300 wouldn't seem too bad.

So how does one go about ordering the Twin Stick EX from the Hori website? Is there a shipping to US option, or do you have to go through an importer? Still not sure about spending that kind of dough on a use-specific peripheral, but just maybe...

feixaq wrote:So how does one go about ordering the Twin Stick EX from the Hori website? Is there a shipping to US option, or do you have to go through an importer? Still not sure about spending that kind of dough on a use-specific peripheral, but just maybe...

They don't ship internationally, so you have to go through an importer. The only store I know that is importing them to the US is NCS, priced at $398.90 (preorder link). The bulk of the mark-up goes to the international shipping. Even if you know somebody in Japan who will buy and reship to you for cost, it will approach the NCS price unless you go with surface shipping which takes months (EMS shipping on a single stick is about $70, and SAL is around $65). I've posted info on this in a previous thread.

circuscommando wrote:i doubt Hori could make $100 sticks, while being profitable (they're asking triple that, a pure profit of $200 on a $300 item is unbelievable) $150 would probably be stretching. I'd guess Hori could probably sell at $150-$200 and manage out a few bucks. didn't someone mention the cost of each stick alone was at least $50-$60?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my last posting. I meant $100 off so $200 total. Not $100 total.

Shipping begins on 12th November! Ordering at lunch

Sweet Zombie Jesus! My arcade controls cost me less than half that!

...I bit.

$421 and some change out the door from NCSX.

Lord help us all....

welcome to the club

so far i've counted four of us that've openly committed... or need to be committed

wraith88 wrote:welcome to the club

so far i've counted four of us that've openly committed... or need to be committed

Sweet! I'm not crazy by myself!

If the new model is not using the Sanwa sticks, it's not worth the money anymore. I have seem way too many sticks broken in the arcades. The sticks certainly looked like the Seimitsu sticks used in the original arcade cabinets. The mostly common faults were bad triggers and broken support rod in the sticks.

The original Seimitsu sticks broke one after another, so did the various 3rd party sticks. The support rods used by Sanwa was made from stainless steel instead of some random iron rod, which actually prolong the lifespan.

Our favorite arcade operator finally settled on Sanwa and none of them broke down till the last day. I am talking about at least 16 pair of sticks in various locations here. Granted that it is not as hands friendly as the original Seimitsu sticks, it can take a lot of abuse and I will highly recommend them.

So that's the story of Singapore "arcade quality" sticks for all who cares.

jiakhang wrote:If the new model is not using the Sanwa sticks, it's not worth the money anymore. I have seem way too many sticks broken in the arcades. The sticks certainly looked like the Seimitsu sticks used in the original arcade cabinets. The mostly common faults were bad triggers and broken support rod in the sticks.

I get your point, but I have to disagree about the severity. The keyword is "abuse". Unless the controller is subject to abuse, the real VOOT arcade joysticks are fine. Broken shafts and other damage is caused by violent usage, such as idiots using the sticks to support their full body weight, or idiots trying to break them on purpose. The bad trigger issue is caused by lack of cleaning. Cleaning the turbo/weapon PCB can actually fix the trigger even after it's gone bad.

My modded arcade VOOT Twin Sticks are still great after nearly 9 years. I would much rather have the actual arcade VOOT joysticks than any substitute. The hassle of some occasional maintenance is well worth having the feel of the "real" sticks to me. The last complete maintenance I did on mine was in April, and after 2000+ matches they are still great. All I have been doing is cleaning the triggers and grips, which I would do anyway since otherwise they will get too gross!

Also, I don't think anybody other than Hori knows what joystick will be in their controller. They may have just designed a new grip for the Sanwa joysticks.