Forgive me for the lengthy response, but I felt it was necessary to address alot of really good points you guys brought up by my question. Thanks to everyone who shared their insights with me, hopefully it proved helpful to others and maybe sparked some other questions or ideas in the process.
MentholMoose wrote:
DooM wrote:I'd like to know what makes Bal her worst matchup, and in turn, what makes her his easiest.
From looking at the Bal data, it looks like Bal is mainly weakest against VRs that can effectively neutralize mines. Based on my experience, a Grys-Vok player can shield himself by using numerous bomb attacks to wipe out a lot of mines. So, a Grys-Vok player won't be especially disrupted by mines and can go about implementing various Grys-Vok strategies..
This is pretty much what I was thinking as well, though I am unsure how the data supports mine neutralization in the cases of Fei-Yen and Raiden? (Two of Bal's worst matches.) I suppose in the case of Fei-Yen she can run really fast away from the mines and probly blow up alot with her little handgun. As a Fei-Yen player, however, I personally get hit by alot more mines to the back than I usually do when I'm Angelan, simply because its harder to keep track of Bals E.R.Ls when zipping about so much.
For Angelan, its certaintly true that the mines can be a real hassle. It certaintly causes her to play her game differently. Unlike V.R.s such as Grys-Vok, who can sweep the field of enough mines to go about his usual strategies for the most part (as you mentioned). So thats certainly a point in Bal's favor.
For Angelan i'd say her best defense against mines is to 1 pay attention to E.R.L. placement. So that not only can you have an idea of where the mines will come from, but also so that you can position obstacles between yourself and the E.R.Ls so that the terrain works for you. I personally find snowflakes and ice shots to also be really good against mines, as long as you keep them away from your back. Double Dragons will also wipe the field of any mine they come in contact with, which can be really nice as they'll often circle the stage in two passess.
Angelan's air control also goes a long way in avoiding mines IMO.
MentholMoose wrote:As for Angelan, one of her key defensive characteristics is V.Armor (only slightly lower than #1 Dordray, in VER.5.45 at least), which is completely ineffective against mines. I'm not an Angelan player, but I can guess that the relatively higher requirement of dodging mines is highly disruptive to Angelan strategies.
From personal exp. its not so much the disruption caused by the mines that hurts Angelan's game, as in, its harder to set up traps and the like with so many things floating about. And more so the fact that Angelan has a much smaller life score than most. So when you do get hit, which you
will vs. a good Bal, it hurts alot more than it would other VRs.
Curiously, the data lists the matchup of Dor vs. Bal as much closer to being even at 6/10 in Bals favor. With slower average speed and worse air control than Angelan, I can only imagine that what saves Dor is his higher HP value and damge output? I don't play Dor so i can't speak from exp, but I imagine he has an even harder time than Angelan when it comes to dodging/dealing with Bals mines?
As an Angelan pilot I pretty much just assume that anything that hits me is capable of hurting me.
Alot. And i think this quality carries over to a lot of other Angelan pilots as well. The mating of a mech with high V.armor with low HP is sort of like having an unreliable safety net. Its nice and all that its there, but i wouldn't put my faith in it. This constant sense of "I can't afford to get hit" runs deep for Angelan pilots, and I think it tends to make them a bit overly cautious. Usually resulting in a somewhat stronger foundation of dodging, movement, and defensive skills than I think you usually see among other VRs that can grin and bear it through more firepower (i.e Dordray, Raiden.)
Then again, I pilot Fei-Yen as my standby, so i guess you could say i don't like to get hit in general.
MentholMoose wrote:Schooly D wrote:
On top of that, Bal's RW also can't be deflected by V. Armor. Or can it?
Good point, I don't think it can. Which Bal attacks can be deflected, anyway? I don't think CW can, nor cCW.
Bal's RW rings shred right through V.armor. In fact, I can't think of a single attack of Bals that is deflectable. In Angelan's case however, you can use both snowflakes and her ice shot to cancel out certain versions of Bal's rings.
MentholMoose wrote:
Also, now that I think of it, one key aspect of my anti-Bal strategy is to keep lock-on nearly 100% of the time, to see what attacks are coming (especially those pesky cCW). I can do this well with Grys... using bombs to clear mines, I can relatively freely do dash attacks, jump cancels, or generally just rotating while walking. How possible is this with Angelan? Mainly I can think of rotating during jumping attacks, since Ang does have good jumping capabilities. But what about any effective dash attacks? There is always the jump-cancel, but any momentary freeze time against Bal is bad news if you can't clear mines.
I can only speak from my own experiences but for me keeping a near 100% lock is pretty key to Angelan's game in general, and its pretty rare for me to not have the enemy VR in sights for most of the match (barring Cypher, who is all but impossible for me to nail down all the time with his frequent air trips over my head. > . >) Not only is it crucial to have a lock for defensive purposes as Angelan (dodging, setting up mirrors) but I find it to be very important as well for offensive purposes (herding, setting up positioning, traps.) Angelan's good air control plus the jump-cancel is usually enough for me to do this while still setting up enough stuff of my own while dealing with Bals mines. I find that Angelan's most worthwhile dash attacks are properly timed ice columns and forward RWs, both of which are workable against Bal, though I wouldn't consider them crucial to the matchup.
DZef wrote:
I don't have much experience with playing either one, but from what I have read, it comes down to two things:
1. One of Bal's mines does almost the same damage on Angelan as Angelan's double-dragon hit on Bal
2. One single mine will shatter Angelan's mirror, letting the rest of the mines float freely
Versus Bal Angelan's double dragon strips away approximately 25% of his total if he's moving and 45 if he is stationary, something I wasn't aware of until going into training and checking it out. In fact, I was unaware a stationary target took more dmg and would like to know if this is the norm for alot of attacks?
Not sure how much a single mine does when it hits Angelan, but I'm pretty sure ive never seen it knock off 1/4 of my life.
DZef wrote:
It basically comes down to attrition. At a really high level, both Bal and Angelan will hardly ever make themselves vulnerable, and you would assume attacks like reflective/rapid laser and Angelan's RW won't hit. Then it comes down to who is likely to suffer a hit in a game of ice pillar+dragon vs. a mine field. When two high level players go at it, they go into battle prepared to end the match in a draw with 100% HP left, and they work from there.
I firmly agree with this and believe its the reason why the matchup will always be in Bal's favor. I suppose I have yet to have my Angelan so firmly shut down by a Bal to understand an 80% win percantage in bal's favor, but i certainly think overall the ball is in his court.