Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

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renesis8
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Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by renesis8 » 07 May 2009, 06:43

Hi..this is my first post in oratan =)

I might start modding a sega saturn twinstick to make it compatitble with xbox360.
As for now, i don't have a twinstick.
In my neighbourhood, there is a guy willing to sell his sega saturn twinstick to me at SGD$80 (USD$55)
Is it worth buying?

and Menthol, why did you map 4-way-pad to right stick instead of the left stick?
is there a reason behind it?
MentholMoose wrote: ...This is how I have configured the Xbox 360 buttons to map with the DC Twin Sticks:

Code: Select all

XBOX 360    TWIN STICKS
----------------------------
UP          Right Stick Up
LEFT        Right Stick Left
DOWN        Right Stick Down
RIGHT       Right Stick Right
A           Left Stick Down
B           Left Stick Right
X           Left Stick Left
Y           Left Stick Up
BACK        START
START       PAUSE
GUIDE       N/A
L. Bumper   Left Turbo
L. Trigger  N/A
L. Stick    Left Weapon
R. Bumper   Right Turbo
R. Trigger  N/A
R. Stick    Right Weapon
...

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MentholMoose
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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by MentholMoose » 07 May 2009, 10:26

renesis8 wrote:Is it worth buying?
I think it's reasonable.
renesis8 wrote:and Menthol, why did you map 4-way-pad to right stick instead of the left stick?
is there a reason behind it?
Oh, wow, that's a big typo on my part. The d-pad definitely has to be mapped to the left stick. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I'll fix it right away.
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carr76013
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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by carr76013 » 07 May 2009, 13:25

$55US is pretty good, the cheapest I could find a set was $80us.

Gasaraki
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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by Gasaraki » 07 May 2009, 15:45

I got a used set for 3000 yen on YAJ but after proxy service fees and shipping it'll probably be around $60 so yeah seems good to me.

renesis8
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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by renesis8 » 07 May 2009, 19:26

good day everyone... thanks for all the reply... i currently arranging the deal with the seller... most likely will deal in a few days time

cant wait to start on the modding.. =)

renesis8
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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by renesis8 » 10 May 2009, 04:42

hi everyone.. ive just finish shopping for all the parts and i finally got my SS twinsticks.

But i realise that my wired xbox 360 belongs to the earlier version. It is still possible to mod? Because the earlier version one does not have alternate soldering point at the back of the PCB.

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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by MentholMoose » 10 May 2009, 16:17

It's probably possible but much, much harder. The alternate soldering points are not much of an issue, but the non-common ground is a big problem. Twice as much soldering is required, plus you will have to do some major hacking of the stick PCBs. A Japanese gaming site made a guide for modding DC Twin Sticks with the old, non-common ground controllers:
http://www.4gamer.net/games/085/G008596/20090501027/

The cheapest solution is probably to find a used MadCatz controller somewhere.
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renesis8
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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by renesis8 » 10 May 2009, 18:02

hey..menthol.. thanks for the link..

The old pcb really seem extremely hard to work with. I can't find mad catz product in my country. :cry:

i guess i will go around hunting for the new version of wired controller today.

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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by Dreamcazman » 10 May 2009, 20:04

renesis8 wrote:I can't find mad catz product in my country. :cry:
Neither could I. I had to import a new controller from the US.

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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by Dreamcazman » 12 May 2009, 14:04

I got my Saturn sticks yesterday and I promptly dismantled them to give them a good clean and lube. The only thing is, that spring is hella strong and I'm having trouble getting the circlip back on the shaft. :? Any easy way without damaging anything?

Other question is, anyone know where you can get the micro switches for the Saturn sticks if ever they need to be replaced?

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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by MentholMoose » 12 May 2009, 14:27

Dreamcazman wrote:I got my Saturn sticks yesterday and I promptly dismantled them to give them a good clean and lube. The only thing is, that spring is hella strong and I'm having trouble getting the circlip back on the shaft. :? Any easy way without damaging anything?
You think that's strong?? You should try the arcade sticks!! Anyway, for removing the e-ring on the arcade sticks, I first push the spring down enough to grip the e-ring with needle nose pliers. Then, with the panel on the floor and the stick horizontal to the floor, I use one hand to hold the actual stick very firmly to prevent any movement, and the other hand to grip the pliers extremely hard and pull straight up. For reinstalling the e-clip, you just have to do you best to compress the spring enough to use pliers for getting the e-clip back on. It shouldn't be that hard since the e-clip will hold the spring down even if it's only partially on, and you can use pliers to carefully snap it back in place.

Also, be extra careful to lubricate everything, including the shaft. Various plastic parts slide up and down on the shaft, and even this relatively slight movement will destroy them quickly if there isn't enough lubricant. I actually forgot to do this the other day when cleaning my arcade sticks, but I noticed it immediately so there was no damage (I just had to completely disassemble, lubricate, and reassemble them again :( ).
Dreamcazman wrote:Other question is, anyone know where you can get the micro switches for the Saturn sticks if ever they need to be replaced?
Are they standard microswitches that are soldered to the PCB? I actually haven't heard reports of the actual switches failing, but I have seen some where the solder point cracked and the switch became loose and seemingly non-functional. In this case, you can redo the solder point if the damage isn't too severe. Remember to reinstall the restrictor plate and properly tighten the screws holding it in place. You need the restrictor plate and screws to do their job in protecting the switches.
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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by Dreamcazman » 12 May 2009, 14:45

MentholMoose wrote:You think that's strong?? You should try the arcade sticks!! Anyway, for removing the e-ring on the arcade sticks, I first push the spring down enough to grip the e-ring with needle nose pliers. Then, with the panel on the floor and the stick horizontal to the floor, I use one hand to hold the actual stick very firmly to prevent any movement, and the other hand to grip the pliers extremely hard and pull straight up. For reinstalling the e-clip, you just have to do you best to compress the spring enough to use pliers for getting the e-clip back on. It shouldn't be that hard since the e-clip will hold the spring down even if it's only partially on, and you can use pliers to carefully snap it back in place.

Also, be extra careful to lubricate everything, including the shaft. Various plastic parts slide up and down on the shaft, and even this relatively slight movement will destroy them quickly if there isn't enough lubricant. I actually forgot to do this the other day when cleaning my arcade sticks, but I noticed it immediately so there was no damage (I just had to completely disassemble, lubricate, and reassemble them again :( ).
Thanks for the tips. I had no trouble removing the clips, it's the reassembly that's the problem. I'll get there though, I didn't want to push hard on the actuator so I'll try compressing the spring. (if I can get in there :lol:)

I'm lubing everything! Most of the parts still had some sort of lubrication on them, but after 10 or so years there's not much left :o Everything still appears to be in good working order and nothing is worn down or otherwise damaged.
MentholMoose wrote:Are they standard microswitches that are soldered to the PCB? I actually haven't heard reports of the actual switches failing, but I have seen some where the solder point cracked and the switch became loose and seemingly non-functional. In this case, you can redo the solder point if the damage isn't too severe. Remember to reinstall the restrictor plate and properly tighten the screws holding it in place. You need the restrictor plate and screws to do their job in protecting the switches.
They look like the switches used in Sanwa JLF sticks, but have a lever attached to them. Mine are still working fine, however I might spray some WD40 into them to minimise any further wear & tear.

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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by Dreamcazman » 13 May 2009, 02:00

Just another quick question MM, have you had any of your sticks' bases go brittle? I was checking over the bases for my sticks this morning and found what looks like some very fine hair line creases or cracks in the thin plastic around where the shaft passes through (must be from the spring pressure over the years) and I'm concerned that they may break in the future. I was thinking of using a wider metal washer instead of the plastic/nylon one that's in there to give it a bit more surface area but I'm not sure how well metal on metal (spring) will fare over time. Do you know of anything else that I can do to minimize any further damage? Or should I not really worry about it and leave as-is, making sure it's well lubed.

Here's a picture showing the problem area, highlighted by the red circles.

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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by MentholMoose » 13 May 2009, 02:21

Dreamcazman wrote:I was thinking of using a wider metal washer instead of the plastic/nylon one that's in there to give it a bit more surface area but I'm not sure how well metal on metal (spring) will fare over time. Do you know of anything else that I can do to minimize any further damage? Or should I not really worry about it and leave as-is, making sure it's well lubed.
A thin nylon washer might be okay. I wouldn't go with metal since it might cause further wear if there is any contact with plastic. The problem with adding something there is that it might be too thick, causing the spring to be further compressed, and thus causing additional strain on the parts. I'd suggest that you make sure it is lubricated well and hope for the best.
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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by Dreamcazman » 13 May 2009, 02:37

MentholMoose wrote:A thin nylon washer might be okay. I wouldn't go with metal since it might cause further wear if there is any contact with plastic. The problem with adding something there is that it might be too thick, causing the spring to be further compressed, and thus causing additional strain on the parts. I'd suggest that you make sure it is lubricated well and hope for the best.
Yeah, I might leave it as-is and not stuff around with them.

I guess this is one of the downfalls of plastic and trying to maintain gaming equipment that's a few years old. Would be nice to know if there was somewhere that stocked spare parts but methinks manufacturing of these sticks have long ceased.

renesis8
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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by renesis8 » 14 May 2009, 03:23

hi.. i have just finish modding the ss twinsticks last night.. i used a wireless controller for the mod.
The soldering for it is crazy. Especially for the 4-way pad part.

A great thanks to menthol for providing me tips and guide throughout. :)


the Fruit of my effort

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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by MentholMoose » 14 May 2009, 03:27

EXCELLENT!! Congrats on a successful mod!
MentholMoose

renesis8
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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by renesis8 » 14 May 2009, 03:53

MentholMoose wrote:EXCELLENT!! Congrats on a successful mod!
Hey... Thanks! :)

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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by Testament/Seven7 » 14 May 2009, 11:19

Grats dude ^^
Marz First Lt. Testament, Temjin pilot

Xbox live gamertag: Lt Testament

renesis8
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Re: Need some advice with sega saturn twinstick modding

Post by renesis8 » 14 May 2009, 18:10

Testament/Seven7 wrote:Grats dude ^^
Thanks! :)

Last night i encounter a problem with the sticks. The twinstick's 15pin D-Sub wire must be bent at a certain angle or else the R-weapon will not work :(

I wired 15pin d-sub's brown-black wire to the R-Weapon.
Could it be that the brown-black wire in the middle of the D-sub wire in damage?

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