Post your questions here

[MentholMoose]

Does using twin stick type control have advantages over standard type control?

A lot of players are very good with the control pad, so I'd say it's debatable.

Also, when is the new patch coming?

This info has not been made public yet.

[CrouchingLiger]

I'm confused.

When I use the standard controls, I seem to be able to walk a lot faster than when using the twinstick type A/B. Am I doing something wrong?

Also, is there a practical use for the dashing melee? It seems pretty hard to connect with...

[MentholMoose]

When I use the standard controls, I seem to be able to walk a lot faster than when using the twinstick type A/B. Am I doing something wrong?

See this page for how the standard controls map to Twin Sticks:
http://vo-ot360.sega.jp/system.html

Basically, pressing a direction in the Standard scheme is equivalent to pressing that direction on both sticks with Twin Sticks. For example, "up" with Standard is equivalent to "left stick up + right stick up" on Twin Sticks. Being unable to walk at half-speed is one limitation of the Standard scheme.

Also, is there a practical use for the dashing melee? It seems pretty hard to connect with...

It's not used that much since it's dangerous and difficult, but it has it's place. It's like any move: it's good to have in your arsenal, so you can use it when the opportunity arises.

[ThomasMak0524]

How many wins or points are needed to be a 5 star orange general?

[MentholMoose]

How many wins or points are needed to be a 5 star orange general?

Rank is based on EXP, and no number value is shown with your EXP... only a graphical bar. I reached 5-stars with about 700 wins (1000 total games). Some people get there with less, others more. The EXP you get mostly depends on the rank of the person you are playing.

[SupidSeep]

Hmm unless CW+RT has been changed greatly since 5.2, it is fairly useless. I didn't dare to try it in 5.66 because I will eat punishment from the freeze time. It leaves you vulnerable, and has a terrible tracking ability. It's so easily dodge that I managed to land it like 2 times before on human players in my arcade. The crouch version is excellent and reliable for catching landings. Try it and you will love it.

I have no knowledge on 5.66. In 5.2 however, I occasionally used Cypher's Standing RTCW for long range (>450 on the range indicator) bombardment, especially against someone getting too comfy behind an obstacle. Against less experienced players who has limited knowledge of Cypher's full moveset, this can surprise them for good damage. However, veterans and above will not likely get caught by this move. Remember to hide behind an obstacle yourself before firing.

JK, I remember landing this move on the Specineff who defeated me during your first tournament back when we were all half-skilled (he shockwaved me at start of 3rd round, I got up and thought "Let's use something he might not have seen", backdashed behind an obstacle to >450 range then fired standing RTCW which caught him with pants down and for more damage than what his shockwave did). When most of us got experienced and fine-tuned our reflexes, opportunities to use standing RTCW become non-existant: >450 meters became very rare and only when both sides decided to play long-range bombardment.

[jiakhang]

JK, I remember landing this move on the Specineff who defeated me during your first tournament back when we were all half-skilled (he shockwaved me at start of 3rd round, I got up and thought "Let's use something he might not have seen", backdashed behind an obstacle to >450 range then fired standing RTCW which caught him with pants down and for more damage than what his shockwave did). When most of us got experienced and fine-tuned our reflexes, opportunities to use standing RTCW become non-existant: >450 meters became very rare and only when both sides decided to play long-range bombardment.

The only way to land a hit safety with this is to fulfill the following requirements:
1) 400m+ distance
2) You are standing behind an obstacle
3) Your opponent is firing while dashing

Seriously, it's not worth it. Cypher is so much more deadlier within 300m that you should be rushing in for the kill rather than staying far out at 400+m.

Why? Just a general reminder that Cypher has terrible priority in weapons. Too far out and everything either

1) Smash into a wall
2) Projectiles can be dodge easily by walking
3) Neutralised by a vast number of weapons
4) Bounce off V-armor

Then you will get pwned by auto-tracking/firing VRs like Bal and Angelan because you aren't putting pressure on them as you are so far out to be a threat, They will spam stuff at you till your eyes bleed. I still remember the days when our resident Bal expert, Fu Xiong spam so much stuff coming from all directions at me that I could not had to suck my thumb and did nothing but vector jump cancels for 20 seconds in a stretch.

[jiakhang]

Also, is there a practical use for the dashing melee? It seems pretty hard to connect with...

It's not used that much since it's dangerous and difficult, but it has it's place. It's like any move: it's good to have in your arsenal, so you can use it when the opportunity arises.

Way back then, it was given a term "dash CC" (Dashing Close Combat) in our circles (MSBS 5.2). In practical combat, Temjin and Apharmd B are very deadly because of dash CCs.

Here are a few tricks that I hope still works on 5.66.

1) (At melee range) Fire weapon at close range -> Diagonal forward dash CC
Apharmd B : RWLT (1 to 3 bullets) -> Diagonal forward dash CC immediately
Temjin : CWLT -> Diagonal forward dash CC immediately

At melee range, the only projectile attacks that will fire normally instead of triggering a CC (close combat) attack are anything with LT. (LWLT, RWLT, CWLT) Use something that fires and recover fast, cancel into a diagonal forward dash CC, and your dashing melee attack will hit while your opponent is still locked in a stun from your close range projectile attack.

2) Watari dash under a landing VR -> Diagonal forward dash CC

Use a watari dashing to get under your opponent right before they land. (Approximately 1 VR height) Then execute a diagonal forward dash CC in the direction of landing. Time it correctly and it's an unblockable CC attack.

In my opinion, the most impractical use of CC attack is Cypher's aerial CC. It doesn't hit often enough and leaves you wide open for punishment if you missed. It's combo friendly with a regular RW CC attack and scores you tons of style points if you connect them

[SupidSeep]

JK, IIRC most of the stun-effect LT attacks are phased out after 5.2 for V.Armour damaging attacks, so the stun-and-slash don't really work anymore in 5.4 and probably won't apply in 5.66.

Still, with practise, dash CC can be mastered and used at the right time with devastating effect. In 5.2 Temjin and Aph B are the deadliest in dash CC because:

1) They are both sturdy VRs and can take minor damage while rushing in without being staggered out of their dash.
2)a) Temjin's sword has incredible reach when used in CC and does good damage to boot
b) Aph B's tongfers aren't really long but are adequate; his forward dash is EXTREMELY fast (under normal conditions, only Specineff can match his forward dash speed and only for short distances) and can last a fair time, allowing him to close the distance rapidly for a dash CC attempt or apply watari-dash effectively. Finally he does heavy damage (I estimate between 3/5 - 3/4 of standing tongfer damage) on a successful dash CC hit.

Other good VRs are:

Fei-Yen Kn: Very fast ground dash, her "shortsword" has better reach than tongfers, and she does good damage on a hit. Weakness is she is relatively easy to knock out of her dash.

Specineff: EXTREMELY fast ground dash and his scythe also has similar reach and damage with Fei-Yen. Same weakness as Fei-Yen (easily knocked down) and more importantly, his dashes end very fast, limiting dash CC to mostly simple dash-slash-n-hope (unless your reflexes are top-notch, it's impractical to apply watari-dashing to Specineff).

Cypher: Like Specineff, easily knocked outta a dash, average dash speed and damage, but his energy sword is the longest CC weapon after Temjin's sword. I believe it is possible for Cypher & Temjin to dash-CC slice through a small obstacle and get a VR hiding on the other side.

On Cypher's aerial dash CC, it's pretty much a stunt attempt to even try it in a serious match (though I've eaten JK's a couple of times myself). However, I did find a use for it as a V.Armour stripping tool in 5.2 as a ground attack. Admittedly in 5.66 (and 5.4/5.45), you should have a lot more V.Armour stripping attacks, but in 5.2 most of those attacks were stun-effect attacks and very few attacks do significant V.Armour damage. Cypher's aerial dash CC does a LOT of V.Armour damage in 5.2, even when used as a ground attack. Two aerial dash CC ground attacks will leave the opponent' V.Armour in shreds, literally.

Odd VR:

Bal-series: General a very poor VR for dash CC ... BUT his dash CC RW (I remember we call it the "shrimp dive" or something similar) does standing tongfer level damage! The timing is very difficult though. Bal's dash CC CW (cartwheels with blades extended) does only slightly less damage but may actually be easier to hit than the shrimp dive.

Of the 3 new VRs in 5.66, it doesn't take much to think that Aph C will also shine in dash CC.

[Vincent Voltaire]

Of the 3 new VRs in 5.66, it doesn't take much to think that Aph C will also shine in dash CC.

I can vouch on this one. On the few times I faced the Aph C, I was left wondering what happened when the dash CC move was executed on me. What bugs me even more is that I was piloting the Cypher, which should have been able to evade them, but couldn't. Instead, I was trying to retreat constantly so as to regain my footing, while the Aph's kept closing for the kill. (I cite inexperience on my part.)

[CrouchingLiger]

Two more questions for you guys...

1. How do you flush opponents out from behind a wall/obstacle? I guess this is really a question for other Fei players, but is there a general strategy (bombs aside) to lure people out?

2. How do you handle someone who is playing purely evasive after landing a single hit? I seem to encounter this a lot when dealing with higher level Temjins...

[Schooly D]

Two more questions for you guys...

1. How do you flush opponents out from behind a wall/obstacle? I guess this is really a question for other Fei players, but is there a general strategy (bombs aside) to lure people out?

2. How do you handle someone who is playing purely evasive after landing a single hit? I seem to encounter this a lot when dealing with higher level Temjins...

1. Gamechanger
2. Gamechanger

[CrouchingLiger]

How fitting I should receive the answer from the opponent who inspired the question

What do you mean by the "gamechanger?"

[Schooly D]

How fitting I should receive the answer from the opponent who inspired the question

What do you mean by the "gamechanger?"

Cypher's RTCW. So I guess you're out of luck there.

Getting VRs out from behind cover is probably difficult for Fei-Yen (it's also very difficult for Cypher). If you're looking to hit me, though, it's very simple. Apply pressure by working your way around the obstacle, wait for me to air dash away, and look to either thrust vector with an air dash attack of your own (Fei's air dashing CW seems to work well) or follow me on foot and hit me where I land.

[ThomasMak0524]

How do you get up faster? Everytime I try to stab on the ground the enemy can run away.

[Davo87]

I generally rapidly wiggle the left and right stick (clockwise or anticlockwise).

Btw, Any tips using Specineff against Grysvok? The problems lies from specy having to take a huge risk each time he counter punishes with RW or CW. Specy needs cover a lot of the time.

Many of specy's airdash CW attacks can be brutally punished from anyrange making it either an even or unworthy trade. (Normally things like sideairdash CW are mildly punishable by other VRs, which is relatively safe.) But grys-voks LTCW or cLTCW kills this option.

Counter attacking with RW against Grys-voks forward dash RW series is also very risky:
-its extremely fast (any slow reaction is deemed to suffer.)
-each shot is wide. Which makes it hard to counter attack in between the shots without getting hit.
-its variations make counter dash attack very risky. The variations in no. of shots fired from grounddash (3),airdash (4), slidedash (2) makes punishing very unstable.
- the launch noise is so quiet, but mainly its not reliable to confirm audibly bcos its so goddamn fast even at mid-long range.

Generally Im forced to double jump-cancel whenever he gets behind me, which is not the best option but is probably the best thing Ive got to not get hit. Its not like dodging Specineff's CW, where u know its gonna be one shot and u can be prepared for it. Grys-voks RW barrage is relentless against grounddashers.

[feixaq]

Dave -- I have the same problems vs. Grys-vok.

• You can't punish the fwd dash cRW with a dash RW because the last pair of missiles will get you, and the tradeoff is not in Spec's favor.
• Also, a lot of times I get caught by his cLTCW or cCW in the middle of jump-cancelling or landing from an air dash (even when not firing a shot).
• I think you just have to play it safe and do a lot of sliding cLW, cCW, and the dual-shot RW (standing RW into walking cRW).

I'm still experimenting whether it's better to engage Grys-vok medium range or long range. I tend to do best on Space Port and Airport, where there are large obstacles or a lot of little ones, and you can duck behind cover. In that case, cRTLW and cRTCW put a lot of pressure on Grys-vok, especially when you can time them to hit Grys-vok landing after jLTCW and jRTCW.

Ultimately, I can see why the tier rankings have Spec vs. Grys at 4.5-5.5. The one I really can't figure out, however, is Dordray. It's listed at 5-5, but I really wonder if that shouldn't be 3-7?!?

[SupidSeep]

Hmm. I know Grysvok was powered up since 5.2 (IMO after Apharmd Striker, Grys was the weakest, though Grysvok Specialists can put up quite a fight in 5.2 ) but I don't know how tough Grysvok is now.

However, Specineff in 5.2 is a difficult VR to score hits on so I'm actually surprised that Specineff is having problems with Grysvok - unless they slowed him down considerably. How's Specineff's movement speed now? I know in 5.2 his standard walk is slow (rowing should be gone so no discussion in that line), but his dashes are very fast but very short.

Anyone tested out Specineff's side moving crouch speed? IIRC 5.2 Specineff has very good speed in a side moving crouch attack (Reminds me of playing Fei-Yen in VOOM: because Fei-Yen can't fire early in the dash, I used to go walking RW Handbeam < > moving crouch LW Bowgun-direction change to punish dash freeze) and should be able to evade all but the most homing attacks during his moving crouch. However, using moving crouch is definitely a lot easier with twinsticks than on the gamepad.

In 5.2 Specineff's crouch CW has decent homing (much better than regular standing); dash CW is largely useless, but forward-diagional dash crCW (forward dash crCW gives the sliding tackle) is quite effective but suffers dash freeze (which I gather is the problem: Grysvok's last projectiles will get Specineff during the freeze). Therefore, a well-timed moving crouch CW should be a decent compromise unless Grysvok's attacks are so homing a dash or jump cancel is the only way to evade.
If the stream of projectiles is considerable, I supposed a short dash-cancel should evade most of it, them a moving crouch CW to evade the last shots and counterattack.


Dordary, when played right, is very viable in 5.2 and I believe he has been powered up since: apart from (crouch)LTCW and jumping RTCW, most of his CW Flaming Rings (except his ram attack) attacks are a joke in 5.2 unless you time a CW just right to freeze your opponent. I remember I rarely had problems with Dordary until someone discovered the idea of keeping him crouched as much as possible (ground dash crouch attacks, moving crouch attacks, etc.) and cancelling dash freeze with crouch LTCW (a powerful stagger attack in 5.2), leading to all sorts of things bouncing off Tablehead (nickname for Dordy) most of the time because his already stupendous V. Armour is enhanced while crouching.

In 5.2 I've seen my Cypher's 4-Way Missiles bounce off crouching Dordary several times, and I heard a rumour than Temjin has serious problems vs a crouching Dordary because his RW is effectively useless most of the time (keep getting deflected by Tablehead), robbing Temjin of most of his damage potential. As in my FAQ, I modified my Apharmd Battler playstyle against Dordary to use mostly CW Sonic Rings and LW Bombs which can't be bounced off AFAIK so Apharmd Battler is not significantly impacted. I supposed that Grysvok's RW and CW attacks are liable to be deflected by V.Armour, and IIRC Dordary is faster than he looks (definitely a good deal faster than Raiden); Dordary can also use his forward dash LW/CW purely for movement / evasion instead of attempting to ram the opponent. IIRC, in the first Japan VOOT Tourney (I had a VCD record but it's damaged ), there were a fair numbers of machi Dordarys who made liberal use of his ram attacks to RUN AWAY!

Remember, all this is based on my 5.2 experience, so take this in with a mug of salt (and a lot of water too)!

[Trump111]

For the problem of flushing people out from cover,
I suppose Fei Yen is fast and nimble enough to close in and get behind the obstacle.

The thing is to hold off on attacking once the person has a defensive advantage like that.
Concentrate on moving wide so the enemy will have to jump cancel to lock on, and know that there are few attacks the enemy can throw at you (unless it's Spec or Grys maybe).

For an enemy behind cover that can't move and has a limited move set (no dash attacks), it is pretty hard to stave off Fei Yen.

I personally use Grys Vok, but I don't rely much on bunkering behind covers though.
Good evasion is what I hold highest.

[DeepInTheHops]

Sorry, no help here regarding Specineff vs. Grys-Vok. It's not a terrible matchup, but I definitely tend to lose more than I win. I always forget that forward dashing is usually a bad idea against Grys, but a lot of times my brain doesn't tell me to not do that until a few milliseconds after I do it.

Ultimately, I can see why the tier rankings have Spec vs. Grys at 4.5-5.5. The one I really can't figure out, however, is Dordray. It's listed at 5-5, but I really wonder if that shouldn't be 3-7?!?

Absolutely. Is that tier list changing over time? I swear Specineff didn't have anything worse than 5-5 the first time I read it, but now he has two 4.5-5.5 matchups (Grys and Angelan).

I actually don't mind playing against Dordrays that rush a lot. It keeps the match fast-paced and he usually stays in close enough range to not deflect everything.