Any long-time pad players ever switch to twin sticks?

[DeepInTheHops]

Unlike a lot of people, my first encounter with Virtual On was not at the arcade. It was DC VOOT, using the standard pad setup. It was really awkward at first, but eventually I got used to it. I only really played against the AI, so despite playing it a lot I was still a beginner in the grand scheme of things. Eventually I got DC twin sticks, but the game didn't feel that much different because my skills were so basic.

When Hori announced they were doing another batch of twin sticks for Force, I figured I'd give them a shot despite being a pad player for years. I don't spend much time watching replays (I probably should), but high level Specineff players seem to curve dash a lot. My pad workaround was always dash -> cancel dash -> jump cancel -> dash, which is probably really stupid and inefficient. With twin sticks, I figured this would be a lot easier.

...and I suck. A lot. I went from being an average VOOT player to being a beginner again (maybe an "advanced beginner" ). Not only do I have to learn how to use the sticks, but I have to unlearn years of old habits, or at least rewire my brain to do stuff that used to be so natural. Specineff's walking crouch attacks are my main challenge right now; those seem much tougher with the sticks. I'm not sure how pad even simulates those, since crouching and walking should be mutually exclusive. I used to use those a lot, but maybe they're not as necessary now that curve dashes are easier. I don't know.

Also, manual rotation is a weird thing for me now. I'm not used to it being so easy to do so quickly, so my instincts are all messed up. The game feels less "on rails" if that makes sense. It's kind of liberating, I'm much more clumsy now.

One thing easing the transition is Force. Playing Force from the ground up with twin sticks has helped me acclimate, since I'm mostly just learning, not relearning/unlearning stuff. Although playing VOOT after Force is kind of unsettling.

tl;dr: hurr durr, twin sticks are hard

Anybody else go through this? How long did it take you to get back up to speed?

[Fredo]

I experienced the same problem as you did.

I've played with the dreamcast controller for 2 or 3 years, always wondering what was that wierd controller in the manual and in the rolling demo. I progressively got completely fond of this by realizing how deep its gameplay is.

Then I watched some video on Youtube of japanese players playing on the Arcade Cab, I wanted this, from the deep of my soul I wanted to feel this.

I borrowed money from a friend to buy the first TwinStick I managed to find on Ebay. I remember playing with 2 pens during the class, imitating the gameplay I imagined, rehearsing for when I could do it for real.

When I finally could open that box of mine and experience this for the first time, I was surprised how easy it was to play with these with my skills at the moment. Like if my rehearsals were really effective xD

I learned lots of stuff I completely ignored about the gameplay, I was like "WOW WHAT DID I DO ?! WHAT WAS THAT ! A DASHING CQC ?!", I learned rotating, Dash-CQC, Quick-step, Quick-step CQC etc. I thought I became really good because I was able to complete the arcade mode in hardest difficulty.

Then came the Xbox 360 version and human players, and back playing with the pad. I started by feeling I was good by kicking some noob's asses but soon realized that there are much better players than me and the Dreamcast AI. I met Zaarock, he introduced me here. I learned how to make an X360 Twin-Sticks I learned even more about VOOT by playing with you all but still have some bad reflexes coming from the Arcade Mode.

Zaarock was a noob at that time but now he beats me most of the time, he moves much faster than I could ever do with my TwinStick. But screw that, I'll never give up my TwinSticks for a lame game pad just for a matter of performance. I'll do my best, but I jus can not "feel" the game anymore without thos two handles in my hands.

VOOT is an experience, the experience can not be complete without the TwinStick.

[neoKEN]

My first experience is with VOOM on arcade, but only a few minutes so I suppose that doesn't count.

Saturn pad control is where I spent most of my time playing against local friends. I loved it and I think it matches the VOOM arcade control quite well.

With VOOT, omg... it became so much more complex! Rotation during dashes, watari dashes, turbo attacks, nonstop cancels and half cancels. I forced myself to relearn how to use the twin analog since that was the closest to the arcade setup. Almost a year later, I opted to use standard pad controls instead due some possible bug I encountered while playing on rank. If I did jump cancel too quickly, there is no cancel. The only way for me to cancel the jump was to input it slower. I couldn't replicate since that day. Anyways, I loss so many matches due to that and I went back to standard controls instead.

Playing both setups, I saw the strenghts and weakness of both. On twin, rotation is so much easier. Example, Angelan jump then rotate aim into a RTRW. On standard, I felt as though I don't have enough time to aim. Also I think Rotation cancel is only possible on twin. I couldn't do it on standard. Ex. Raiden RTRW -> rotation cancel (aim) -> laser cage. The positive to standard is crouch attack is 100% guaranteed to come out. Even I notice some the best Japanese players missing neutral cCW once in a while on their twin sticks. Perfectly straight diagonal air dash is easier on standard. I never did use diagonal airdash on twin because it was easy to get disorientated and lose lockon when using 1 stick to control direction. Sliding attacks feels much harder on twin too. Dash CC combos are easier on twin than on pad. The 1st stick can start the dash while the 2nd stick can be use to activate the CC during the dash.

Even though it is nice to play on twin, I prefer to play on pad with standard controls. It's less tiring and less prone to mistakes:). I'll be selling my VOOM arcade twin sticks soon.

[MasterFygar]

I play on a pad with twinstick controls. The only way I feel like I can play VOOT. By the same token, I can ONLY play OMG on the original twinsticks. Old habits die hard and all that

[DeepInTheHops]

I play on a pad with twinstick controls.

Really? I tried that for a bit after the 360 VOOT launch, but something about it just didn't feel right. It could just be my familiarity with the standard pad setup, but at that point I hadn't played with either twin sticks or a pad in years.

Anyway, I think it'll be a long time before I return to my previous heights of mediocrity. Maybe never. But I'm not giving up, at least not yet. Thank God we never have tournaments anymore.

[MasterFygar]

I play on a pad with twinstick controls.

Really? I tried that for a bit after the 360 VOOT launch, but something about it just didn't feel right. It could just be my familiarity with the standard pad setup, but at that point I hadn't played with either twin sticks or a pad in years.

Anyway, I think it'll be a long time before I return to my previous heights of mediocrity. Maybe never. But I'm not giving up, at least not yet. Thank God we never have tournaments anymore.

Yep... when I started Marz, I set it to that and didn't realize there was any other way. That's the only way I can play seriously now. I just figured everyone did that

[Temjin747K]

I never got to use Twin Sticks on the arcade machine anymore because the arcade where the machine is located closed down

[RVR - 42]

I've never had the fortune of playing the game on twinsticks. >_< I've been on a DC pad for nearly 11 years now. I would really, really love to get some experience with twin sticks though. I almost bought a VOOM machine awhile back actually. lol Maybe some day.

[DeepInTheHops]

I've noticed that the speed boost you get from Specineff's walking cLW doesn't last nearly as long with twin sticks vs. doing it on a pad (at least when I do it). Does anybody have any theories why? Does it have anything to do with rowing? I'm not sure what twin stick movement the pad is simulating when you press A and RT while holding the analog stick in one direction.

It's not a huge deal since curve dashes kind of eliminate the need to do walking cLW so often, but it'd be good to know.

[MentholMoose]

I've noticed that the speed boost you get from Specineff's walking cLW doesn't last nearly as long with twin sticks vs. doing it on a pad (at least when I do it). Does anybody have any theories why? Does it have anything to do with rowing? I'm not sure what twin stick movement the pad is simulating when you press A and RT while holding the analog stick in one direction.

What are the buttons mapped to? A = crouch and RT = RW? With Twin Sticks, there is no crouch button and crouching temporarily breaks your directional input. To keep momentum you have to input crouch and return the sticks to the direction very quickly. I believe when using the control pad, the game does this for you instead of cheating (i.e. inputting the crouch without breaking the directional input).

[DeepInTheHops]

Yeah I thought it might be due to something like that.

Is it possible to execute crouching attacks if the sticks aren't lined up perfectly (e.g., the right stick is pushed left and the left stick is pushed diagonally right/down)? It seems like you can and that it might have something to do with it; I need to play around with it more in practice.

[MentholMoose]

Yes that's possible. Practice some more and you'll get it.

[Fredo]

There is one move with Raiden that I don't manage to perform with the TwinStick: the crouching diagonal CW

Basically, with the game pad it's pretty easy: rotate + Crouch Button + CW

But with a TwinStick, how the hell can I rotate and crouch simultaneously ?

[Zaarock]

But with a TwinStick, how the hell can I rotate and crouch simultaneously ?

If you input crouch right after rotation, it should lock the rotation and take the crouch input? (you'll keep spinning) this also happens on pad

[neoKEN]

There is one move with Raiden that I don't manage to perform with the TwinStick: the crouching diagonal CW

Basically, with the game pad it's pretty easy: rotate + Crouch Button + CW

But with a TwinStick, how the hell can I rotate and crouch simultaneously ?

Have you tried [9-1] or [3-7] input + CW?

*[left stick - right stick] where each number is a direction represented on the keyboard number pad.