VOOT Angelan BnB combos/technique?

[FledgelingFighter]

Recently my brother-in-law gave me his old dreamcast, and since I wanted try the series for a while now, I purchased OT and rather enjoyed it. After learning the games mechanics with the help of Shoryuken Wiki (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Cyber_Trooper ... io_Tangram) and commonlogik's guide, (http://www.oratan.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78) I began it enjoy tenfold.

The two characters I have fun with the most are Fei-Yen and Angelan, the former has a very helpful guide (http://www.oratan.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=231), while the latter does not.

I realize that VO isn't a very combo focused game, and Angelan (after looking into it a little more) isn't very combo focused either. But, this game has been played over ten years now, someone must've discovered something.


Anyway, I would really appreciate it if someone could help me out
(Edit: after submitting this, I forgot to add what BnB means, which is "Bread 'n' Butter")

[Porcupine]

I hate all combos and the idea of them, they are what ruins the entire fighting game world. I don't really care if Fei-Yen or Angelan have any combos or not, they should be the furthest thing from your mind unless you are just trying to get a high score in single-player modes, and even then, you typically use fake combos that are escapable by a human (but not by the AI). You are correct in that it helps to know what each character's good moves are, though. At the same time, in VO it helps more to learn how to play in general: a better player typically beats a weaker player even with a character he has never used before, and possibly even in an entirely new VO game he has never seen before.

I forgot to mention that if you are playing on Dreamcast, it is a different game version than the guide you were looking at. So some of the data is inaccurate. General playing principles would still apply, but I probably wouldn't follow that guide for that anyway.

[ChexGuy]

I hate all combos and the idea of them, they are what ruins the entire fighting game world.

I got nothing for the OP, so I came in here just to ask: what the hell are you smoking and why is it legal where you live?

[FledgelingFighter]

I hate all combos and the idea of them, they are what ruins the entire fighting game world. I don't really care if Fei-Yen or Angelan have any combos or not, they should be the furthest thing from your mind unless you are just trying to get a high score in single-player modes, and even then, you typically use fake combos that are escapable by a human (but not by the AI). You are correct in that it helps to know what each character's good moves are, though. At the same time, in VO it helps more to learn how to play in general: a better player typically beats a weaker player even with a character he has never used before, and possibly even in an entirely new VO game he has never seen before.

I forgot to mention that if you are playing on Dreamcast, it is a different game version than the guide you were looking at. So some of the data is inaccurate. General playing principles would still apply, but I probably wouldn't follow that guide for that anyway.

Thank you for the response! Though maybe your right: maybe I shouldn't be focusing on combos, more on the likes of skill. But like I said before, VO doesn't seem like it focuses on combos (I probably used the word like "focus" four times now, lol) which is something I respect. I supose it's just my typical mindset for me whenever I get into a new fighting game: I WANNA PULL OFF A 32 HIT COMBO! ( )

Also, thank you for correcting me on my version of the game. I probably should've kept that in mind.

[Zaarock]

The VO games don't really have bread and butter combos since you can't hit-confirm off of most things. But for attack combinations that keep up pressure in the neutral game there's a ton of those.

Angelan has some of the best combo potential but that's not really what makes her strong, starting them is unreliable. If you're beginning to learn the game combos won't help you much, since you cannot hitconfirm into most of them, and playing well in the neutral game is much more important. It's the same thing with complicated melee attack combos.

Here's some info on her combos though:

Her RW causes stun and can be comboed into almost any other attack. A basic way to make use of this is to chain RW into itself (you can use the machinegun technique for faster firing: RW from neutral lever, move lever and return to neutral, repeat). This does a lot of damage and is pretty safe to throw out.

CW can be comboed off of if you time the following attack to connect exactly after CW shots cause hitstun. Something you can do is RW -> CW (ground hitstun) -> dashing melee attack

LTRW can be comboed into melee attacks and is fast enough to punish things at range on reaction.

LTLW can be comboed into melee attacks(but has a long animation).

RTRW variants which freeze the opponent can clearly be comboed off of but it's extremely unreliable to hit anyone unless they leave a massive opening. If you're close you can confirm into melee attacks, at range cRTCW is one of the only things that you can hitconfirm into. At close range you can confirm it into Angelan's lifedrain melee if you happen to have the wings activated. If you have an RTLW ice cone flying around it'll usually connect off of RTRW for some good damage.

Off of an airborne RTRW hit you can do RTRW -> RW (air hit) -> dash melee

For her melee attacks it's notable that her LW has a very good anti-air hitbox. If someone tries to jump or low air dash when you use it there's a large window for it to hit.

I don't really care if Fei-Yen or Angelan have any combos or not, they should be the furthest thing from your mind unless you are just trying to get a high score in single-player modes, and even then, you typically use fake combos that are escapable by a human (but not by the AI).

This is silly, if your character has a projectile that causes stun and can be comboed into another projectile or melee those combos are extremely useful to learn because they give massive damage guaranteed.. say Apharmd B LTRW into melee (which counters ANY enemy melee attempt from the front), Aph B CW hit into dash melee or Temjin LW into unblockable quickstep melee.

Combos are a major part of Aph B player S Zetto's play who has won like 5 tournaments in a row now, that's not something to underestimate. Same thing with any raiden player doing combos off of the laser cage.

[FledgelingFighter]

Wow, fantastic tips, Zaarock! I'll be sure to try these out as soon as I get the chance! Thank you!

[Porcupine]

Does hitting fallen enemies also count as combos? If so, there are a ton of those in VOOT and they do get used frequently. You are allowed to get one free hit on a fallen enemy, any later hits don't count. Ground damage is generally piddly though, so VOOT players tend not to think of them as combos.

[Palmpoa]

Combos are rather unreliable in oratorio tangram due to how execution based the game is. Like as other users mentioned before, all VR have neutral game protocol and approaches to ground damage, fallen damage, air enemies, fielding/area denial etc. Actual combos are rather hard to pull off, and if you attempt to go for one you put yourself at huge risk, as unless you can ensure a down or have cover of some sort by then end of an attack hitstun, you will be punished severely. Executing combos builds some pretty awful habits.

All that being said, some VR can do this very well. For example, almost ALL of apharmd B's close range prowess comes from his incredible range of options, which can be strung together to punish anyone who doesn't run away. NND has dozens of guides on combos for various vr that either deal damage or ensure knockdown from various positions. temjin and feiyen get a special mention here as their massive melee weapons and varied strokes allow for good combos and reversal bait to catch enemies trying to attack after a block or run away. Also here's something that isn't quite VR specific {though bal does it best} called becoming fresh yellowfin tuna or shrimping. Its usually the vr's longest jab, often rw, followed by a rotating dash melee, usually on the right side since most vr are right handed. It deals an insane amount of damage when both hits land and guarantees knockdown on anything bar crouching raiden and dordray.

Also yeah fallen enemy hit techniques: there is only 1 attack that deals significant damage to downed enemy regardless of vr, and that is green melee. Unfortunately, green melee's timing is atrocious, and made worse by the fact a player can wake up right before it hits, leaving you in the open while they are invulnerable. Here's a list off the top of my head of reliable ways dealing damage to downed enemies with minimal risk/timing constraint.

temjin long range: rturborw. If you are a tad too close for its angle use rturbocw
short range: crouch jab. Only useful if knockdown was against wall, has a slow windup otherwise. plain RW can hit grysvok, raiden, and dordray from the side. dash melee cw also can hit downed opponents, but a fast wakeup can let them hit you easily. Jump melee
feiyen long range: anything really. As far as I know even her heavy hitting weapons are severely mitigated during downed. Your saving grace is that her downed attack is hyper quick.
Angelan long range: rtrw.
short range: dash melee cw, jump melee
Specineff long range: rw or rtrw.
short range: eh. I mean his crouch melee is there and so is his cw but you're better off setting uo if you are that close and can't get the downed melee
SP long range: rtrw, rtcw, crltlw
short range: fadashcw. Once again, if you can't land any of its ranged options you SHOULD be doing this or setting up
Dordray long range: lw, ltcrcw, ltcw
short range: His spinning crouch, don't remember the input atm.
Apharmd B short range: CW if you can't get the downed attack
long range: meleertrw
Apharmd S long range: left half cancel CW, missiles
short range: crlw
Apharmd C long range: rtcw, crcw, ltrw {if you can pull it off at the beginning of the down}, lw
short range: jump melee, crrw, keep in mind his downed attack comes out very quick.
Cypher long range: rtrw, mayyybe cw or rtcw if you're aiming for the kill.
short range: adashmelee, jump {last resort}, crcw, crlw, the turbo melee kick. Cypher's downed comes out very quickly and covers alot of range too, making very viable.
Raiden, Grys Vok and Stein Vok can use fdashmelee or jump melee instead of their normal green melee, and have a metric ton of ranged options and setup.

Also please don't practice this stuff against an AI. While the AI of voot may be good, its easily flummoxed by basic things even on Veryhard and you'll find yourself flattened by actual players due to bad habits. Case in point: me.

Oh yeah final addendum inputting an attack and releasing the input within the frame {at least thats how i've been reliably doing it} will make an attack happen before its animation. Not only does this lead to the V-Lasers phenomenon, it allows comboing of certain attacks that ordinarily wouldn't work due to their animation delays. I don't have much experience with this outside of apharmd c, so you should experiment a bit to see what works.

Combos are a major part of Aph B player S Zetto's play who has won like 5 tournaments in a row now, that's not something to underestimate. Same thing with any raiden player doing combos off of the laser cage.

Or steinvok stunlocks ;_;

[Porcupine]

Ground damage is 20% of standing damage, furthermore just as with standing damage, there is a damage cap. The standing damage cap is usually never encountered in normal play, but the ground damage cap is significantly lower (it's lower than 20% of the standing damage cap) so it is regularly encountered. Normal CC that hits a grounded enemy generally goes way beyond the ground damage cap, therefore only doing the same damage as most VR's heaviest turbo shot, typically around 5% of the lifebar. The exception is the dedicated green-bar CC ground stab, it surpasses the ground damage-cap, doing typically around 15% of the lifebar. Zaarock proved all ground stabs are escapable by mashing extremely fast to get up quicker, even the fastest ones, and even if the enemy was originally knocked down from the air (which gives extra time to get the ground stab in) but many players don't mash fast enough.

Standard stun combos (the ones that stagger you backward for a second) can only possibly be comboed into CC because the stun makes you invincible for a brief period that is longer than the actual stun, enabling any followup shot to be dodged. However, the invincibility does not work on CC, so a quick-enough CC can be a combo. Some of the stun --> CC combos that people do are not quick enough and are barely escapable by blocking, jumping, or crouching. We recently found that at least some of the Apharmd B combos are fake, but just happen to work on most players.

I realized the reason for this is that the stun pushes you backward, which in turn extends the duration of normal CC attacks that follow it. So dash CC is the ideal follow-up if you can aim it to hit. Quick-step CC is another possibly guaranteed follow-up if you are at the right distance. Even though quick-step CC is slow, it is as fast as most (slowed-down) normal CC when the opponent is staggering backwards, plus it can hit them in the back so they cannot block. However if the opponent is too far it won't reach their back, and if the opponent is too close, they will recover early enough to jump.

Paralysis-electric-stuns can combo into either shots or CC, but you can mash this type of stun to get out faster, so the faster you mash the less damage you can take from followups. The default duration of electrocution, and the percentage at which the electrocution ailment is randomly inflicted, varies with the attack. When you get hit while being electrocuted you get a unique kind of brief invincibility which prevents you from being obliterated by machinegun-type weapons and usually limits any followup damage to one or two hits.

The V-laser or its general associated phenomena occurs when you shoot something on the first frame of the freeze after you do any dash attack. The trigger doesn't have to be released in a single frame, but it needs frame perfect timing and can only be done after dash attacks. You are right that sometimes it allows for knockdown follow-up ground hits that might not otherwise make it in time. This depends on things like the attacks being used, the positioning, and the distance. Usually though, most VRs don't need to get it.